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Looking for advice on what to do next after completing translation Master's
Thread poster: Adam, MA Trans
Merab Dekano
Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
My advice Jan 26, 2021

There are lots of fancy ways to start, but try this and keep it simple:

1. Make your ProZ profile meaningful and appealing (degree(s), specialization, experience (projects you did)). There are some “training” courses you can find that will help you make maximum out of your ProZ profile. That includes your CV, of course.

2. Go to Blue Board, find LSPs with good ratings, draft a letter and offer them your services point blank. On average, you’ll need to contact abou
... See more
There are lots of fancy ways to start, but try this and keep it simple:

1. Make your ProZ profile meaningful and appealing (degree(s), specialization, experience (projects you did)). There are some “training” courses you can find that will help you make maximum out of your ProZ profile. That includes your CV, of course.

2. Go to Blue Board, find LSPs with good ratings, draft a letter and offer them your services point blank. On average, you’ll need to contact about 300 agencies in order to land 1 good client (and several occasional ones, probably). In most of the cases, you’ll need to spend 10-15 minutes to register on their websites. Do it, don’t skip it. In some cases, you get jobs from clients you registered with two years ago. It’s uncommon, but it happens. Bear in mind that it will take you at lest one year to consolidate your relationship with a couple of good clients, and if you are good and “mean business”, you’ll get jobs from those clients in a steady way (maybe even weekly or so). Don’t lose them once you got to them. And never stop looking for new ones. You’ll be like an opera singer. They never stop looking for a job, but good ones always get it.

3. When you are done with sending those emails (personalise/tailor them as much as you can), go through ProZ forums, different topics, not just “how to get started”. I mean, current state of the industry, most common issues freelancers face, business setup, invoicing nuances, CAT tool intricacies (get one and be at least an average user; you can’t work without it, and if you try to, nobody will take you seriously).

4. And probably the most important advice: once you are done with you “daily search”, keep investigating, keep reading specialised material, participate in forums. In other words, never stop learning. You’ll be as good as the things you do when you are not working.
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Rachel Waddington
Josephine Cassar
Chris White
 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 13:33
German to English
How does one get "expertise"? Jan 26, 2021

@Rachel: For me, the question is how does one get this expertise? If a translator wants to translate financial texts, for instance, does he/she have to do a full degree in finance or business after completing his language or translation degree? That would be very time-consuming, especially if they want to specialise in more than one field!

 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 13:33
German to English
I actually have worked as a freelancer Jan 26, 2021

@Dan: I actually have worked as a freelancer in the no-so-distant past. For three years. During that time, I was kept very busy. I translated texts from a wide variety of fields I knew nothing about (highly technical stuff, marketing, financial, tourism, cars, etc.). Most translators I have met over the years are the exact same (i.e. no qualification in the field they translate in). I admit that as a freelancer I charged quite low rates but I did ok for myself and loved the freedom that came wit... See more
@Dan: I actually have worked as a freelancer in the no-so-distant past. For three years. During that time, I was kept very busy. I translated texts from a wide variety of fields I knew nothing about (highly technical stuff, marketing, financial, tourism, cars, etc.). Most translators I have met over the years are the exact same (i.e. no qualification in the field they translate in). I admit that as a freelancer I charged quite low rates but I did ok for myself and loved the freedom that came with the work, having had a couple of bad experiences with in-house jobs prior to that. Maybe I've been very lucky but my approach of more or less "winging it", using dictionaries and online research to help me translate, has worked out fine for me to date.Collapse


Christopher Schröder
 
Rachel Waddington
Rachel Waddington  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
Dutch to English
+ ...
Expertise Jan 26, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:

@Rachel: For me, the question is how does one get this expertise? If a translator wants to translate financial texts, for instance, does he/she have to do a full degree in finance or business after completing his language or translation degree? That would be very time-consuming, especially if they want to specialise in more than one field!



I don't think I ever said that translators had to have a degree in their specialist subject.

There are lots of ways of gaining expertise, but since I don't think this is a serious question I'm not going to list them here.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Maybe that explains it Jan 27, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:
I admit that as a freelancer I charged quite low rates

That's a commendably honest admission, and it does rather prove my point. You didn't have qualifications or specialist knowledge, hence you didn't get the premium rates as a freelancer. I respectfully submit that a three-year experience of mediocre performance is hardly a strong base from which to advise newcomers to the industry. Anybody can be a freelancer and charge low rates, but working for pennies isn't sustainable over the long term unless, that is, you are happy to remain a member of the precariat all your life.

The point is this: how do you get to charge higher rates? And so we come back to the strategy of differentiation which, far from being some wild and crazy idea, is business orthodoxy. You need to offer something different to that being offered by your competitors, otherwise clients have no reason to consistently choose you in preference to any other supplier.

This is why there is a cadre of members on here who have been reasonably successful - a slippery concept, I acknowledge - and who advise people starting out in the freelance industry, like the OP, to do what they can to acquire a specialism of some kind. In our experience, it is an effective way to catch the eyes of clients.

I've written the same thing dozens of times on these forum, to the extent that regular visitors must be pretty sick of it. I'm pretty sick of repeating it myself, to be honest. I do it because there are still people (like you) who assert, with little or no supporting evidence, that a newly minted freelancer can go out there in 2021 without a USP and succeed.

Unless this worldview is countered, it risks giving newcomers a dangerously unrealistic frame through which to view their careers. Is it possible to prosper without any special expertise or experience? Yes, of course: individual drive and determination can achieve almost anything. Is it likely? No. It's an issue of probabilities.

Regards,
Dan


Peter Shortall
Rita Translator
 
Adam, MA Trans
Adam, MA Trans
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Jan 27, 2021

Hi, everyone.

Firstly, I would like to thank you all for the helpful advice and encouraging words you've given me. I think I've worked out how to use Proz' quote coding...

Rachel Waddington wrote:

I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle if you're trying to work out how to get specialised scientific work BEFORE you have acquired any specialise... See more
Hi, everyone.

Firstly, I would like to thank you all for the helpful advice and encouraging words you've given me. I think I've worked out how to use Proz' quote coding...

Rachel Waddington wrote:

I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle if you're trying to work out how to get specialised scientific work BEFORE you have acquired any specialised scientific knowledge.

Get the expertise and the work will follow. It can be done, but you have some hard work ahead of you.


I completely agree. At the moment, I would feel comfortable translating scientific texts, but I'm very much aware that the ST in my dissertation was 'popular science' and was generally written in layman's terms. It still featured complex themes and terminology, which entailed lots of research and a steep learning curve, but it was world's away from scientific texts written for other scientists. But very enjoyable!

Tom in London wrote:

But yes - you have a long road ahead of you but (I know it's a hackneyed old saying) a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


Absolutely... and that is something most of us can probably relate to, given that language-learning itself is a journey of a thousand miles (and then some!). For now, I'm going to focus on working hard to develop my knowledge of those two branches of science I mentioned, and on enjoying the journey!

Chris S wrote:

You could easily start doing not-too-technical magazine articles and reports aimed at the person on the street, and work your way up if you so choose. It depends partly on how good you are at researching and understanding, I guess. And knowing your limits.


Sheila Wilson wrote:

I suggest you market yourself as having the two specialisations of marine biology and sport. You can justify both. Then accept any job that's going that you feel you could do competently.


Thank you for these suggestions. I've grouped them together as they both relate to my reply to Rachel above. One strong aspect of the course was the emphasis as to the importance of research during translation. I would feel comfortable with the 'not-too-technical magazine articles', etc., but I'm well-aware, for anything more technical, I would need to improve my own expertise first. Not least because researching technical concepts/themes can be extremely time-consuming (I remember spending at least an hour researching 'buffering capacities', how they work in the ocean and the correct TL terminology surrounding them).

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Did you really not learn to use CAT tools at uni? What are they thinking of?


Generally, the course was heavily focused on theory. Discarding the third module (which was the dissertation), the first two modules consisted of eight units, of which one was focused on MateCat and another on Aegisub (a subtitling program). However, even under the scope of using MateCat, the emphasis was mostly on why CAT tools are used, rather than how. I think taking a crash course on a CAT tool would definitely be a good idea.

Peter Shortall wrote:

Digressing a little, I see you have a degree in building surveying. That's very niche in the world of translation! A specialism like that would be fantastic to have as a translator, as construction and engineering are big fields in this business.


Rachel Waddington wrote:

Adam, did you realise that having a degree in building surveying more or less guarantees you a foot in the door with translation agencies? Yet it is hidden away in your profile at the end of a sentence about sport and fitness. I didn't even notice it. Is there a reason why you want to downplay that?


Hi to both of you. To be honest, I didn't intend to downplay building surveying! I never enjoyed it as a subject. But I never knew, in translation, it would be as beneficial as you've both mentioned. I think I need to consider working in this field. At least to begin with. Thank you for drawing my attention to this and taking the time to read my CV.

Dan Lucas wrote:

Your comment reminds me of a thread a couple of years back started by somebody who had worked for 25 years in a large albeit sleepy organisation as a in-house translator. He was perturbed that he had not had a single job as a freelancer since leaving his previous post, and couldn't understand why clients weren't queuing up to avail themselves of his services. "I used to work for the UN!" he protested. To his mind, that was a valuable qualification.

As I recall, we had to explain to him that in contrast to in-house sinecures like those offered by the major international NGOs, competition in the freelance industry is fierce and competence needs to be demonstrated on a daily basis, not merely asserted. I think that was his first and last thread before disappearing, apparently in a huff.

You wouldn't be that chap under a different name, by any chance?


Haha! I wish I had worked for the UN, but 25 years ago I think I was still learning to read and write!

To be honest, I'm also surprised he had trouble finding freelance translation work after having worked for the UN. I wonder if it would have been better to trade off his specialist fields, before using the 'I used to work for the UN' line to seal the deal?

Merab Dekano wrote:

And probably the most important advice: once you are done with you “daily search”, keep investigating, keep reading specialised material, participate in forums. In other words, never stop learning. You’ll be as good as the things you do when you are not working.


Thank you, Merab, for all the advice you gave me. I'm quoting this part specifically because I wanted to say I completely agree with that ethos: to keep pushing oneself. For example, I'm still going to dip into my course material every now and then, just to ensure the theories are still fresh in my mind.

Finally, to everybody, thank you again for your help. I knew it was a good idea to post on here. My head was a bit cloudy trying to work out what to do first! I'm going to look to update my Proz profile and CV as a priority. My dissertation grade isn't revealed until mid-March, so fingers crossed...

I hope everyone is keeping safe and well.

Take care,
Adam
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Adam, MA Trans
Adam, MA Trans
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Previous comment Jan 27, 2021

Not sure what happened to my previous message. I replied to several of your messages by using quotes, but it seems to have abridged my reply to one sentence. Last time, my message didn't seem to appear until much later. So hopefully it'll correct itself retrospectively.

In case it doesn't appear, I want to say thank you very, very much for all of your replies and for taking the time to look at my CV and give me feedback. Invaluable! I will be revisiting this page to process all of t
... See more
Not sure what happened to my previous message. I replied to several of your messages by using quotes, but it seems to have abridged my reply to one sentence. Last time, my message didn't seem to appear until much later. So hopefully it'll correct itself retrospectively.

In case it doesn't appear, I want to say thank you very, very much for all of your replies and for taking the time to look at my CV and give me feedback. Invaluable! I will be revisiting this page to process all of the advice given.

My first priority is to update my CV and Proz profile. But I will also be pushing to develop my knowledge of marine biology and oceanography.
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Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:33
Member
English to Turkish
About CV Jan 27, 2021

Adam-MSCR wrote:

My first priority is to update my CV and Proz profile.


I'd be careful about uploading my CV to publicly accessible websites such as this one. I've recently had my CV stolen and some people think I'm a scammer.


Adieu
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Do nothing... Jan 27, 2021

at the end of Covid (hopefully), travel the world... don't start working immediately, don't get marry or have children too soon... enjoy life.

 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 13:33
German to English
I am being serious Jan 27, 2021

Rachel Waddington wrote:

I don't think I ever said that translators had to have a degree in their specialist subject.

There are lots of ways of gaining expertise, but since I don't think this is a serious question I'm not going to list them here.


I am indeed being serious. How does a translator gain expertise in specialist fields? Through short courses? Reading?


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Cunning linguists Jan 27, 2021

I typed out a long post last night about how you really don't need subject expertise to be a successful translator. I deleted it because I didn't want to derail this thread, but it seems to have gone off the rails anyway now, so...

I agree with Gerard (!) that the very noisy "specialise, specialise, specialise" brigade need to be careful not to put off new entrants.

While subject expertise is undoubtedly useful, it is neither essential nor a translator's most important
... See more
I typed out a long post last night about how you really don't need subject expertise to be a successful translator. I deleted it because I didn't want to derail this thread, but it seems to have gone off the rails anyway now, so...

I agree with Gerard (!) that the very noisy "specialise, specialise, specialise" brigade need to be careful not to put off new entrants.

While subject expertise is undoubtedly useful, it is neither essential nor a translator's most important asset.

Exhibit A: Most translators are linguists, not subject experts. And they are doing just fine.

Exhibit B: Most translators are not very good. And they are doing just fine.

Exhibit C: Most translations are not very technical and do not require subject expertise.

My experience is that genuine mastery of the foreign language, good writing skills in your own language and the ability to deliver on time are surprisingly rare in this business and will get you far.

Subject expertise has many benefits and may help you jump the queue, but it is those core language skills and reliability that really matter.

TLDR: There is probably room for everyone.
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Gerard Barry
Baran Keki
P.L.F. Persio
Joe France
 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 13:33
German to English
I did alright Jan 27, 2021

Dan Lucas wrote:

That's a commendably honest admission, and it does rather prove my point. You didn't have qualifications or specialist knowledge, hence you didn't get the premium rates as a freelancer. I respectfully submit that a three-year experience of mediocre performance is hardly a strong base from which to advise newcomers to the industry. Anybody can be a freelancer and charge low rates, but working for pennies isn't sustainable over the long term unless, that is, you are happy to remain a member of the precariat all your life.

The point is this: how do you get to charge higher rates? And so we come back to the strategy of differentiation which, far from being some wild and crazy idea, is business orthodoxy. You need to offer something different to that being offered by your competitors, otherwise clients have no reason to consistently choose you in preference to any other supplier.

This is why there is a cadre of members on here who have been reasonably successful - a slippery concept, I acknowledge - and who advise people starting out in the freelance industry, like the OP, to do what they can to acquire a specialism of some kind. In our experience, it is an effective way to catch the eyes of clients.

I've written the same thing dozens of times on these forum, to the extent that regular visitors must be pretty sick of it. I'm pretty sick of repeating it myself, to be honest. I do it because there are still people (like you) who assert, with little or no supporting evidence, that a newly minted freelancer can go out there in 2021 without a USP and succeed.

Unless this worldview is countered, it risks giving newcomers a dangerously unrealistic frame through which to view their careers. Is it possible to prosper without any special expertise or experience? Yes, of course: individual drive and determination can achieve almost anything. Is it likely? No. It's an issue of probabilities.

Regards,
Dan



I actually did alright for myself when working as a freelancer, despite charging low rates. I managed to on holidays a couple of times every year and saved loads of money as well. Admittedly I was living with my parents at the time (although I was paying rent). But all in all, considering I was "only" in my late 20s, my lifestyle and earning probably weren't that different from people of a similar age doing other kinds of work. I stopped working freelance a few years and applied for an in-house job. I'm still working in-house now (though in a different company). The pay is quite good so, all in all, I would say I must have done something right when working as a freelancer - otherwise I wouldn't have passed the quite competitive tests and interviews one has to do in order to get hired as an in-house translator. I suppose what I'm saying is there's more than one way to skin a cat.

And I'm still curious as to how people with language/translation degrees are supposed to acquire "expertise" in specialist fields like science, engineering, finance, etc.:)


 
Rachel Waddington
Rachel Waddington  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
Dutch to English
+ ...
Some ideas Jan 27, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:

Rachel Waddington wrote:

I don't think I ever said that translators had to have a degree in their specialist subject.

There are lots of ways of gaining expertise, but since I don't think this is a serious question I'm not going to list them here.


I am indeed being serious. How does a translator gain expertise in specialist fields? Through short courses? Reading?



OK then, here are a few ideas:

* Get hold of a university level textbook and work your way through it. Or at a lower level if that proves too much.

* YouTube: there are lots of great videos out there now. If you don't understand something from the textbook in the point above, try looking for a video on the subject.

* Free courses: have a look what's on OpenLearn, Coursera, etc.

* Paid courses: these can be expensive, but will probably be more rigorous than the free stuff if you can afford it. Plus, if you've paid you're more likely to do the work.

* Work in another field: translators are traditionally advised to spend a few years getting experience in another role before coming to translation. That advice still makes a lot of sense.

* Events: visit industry events such as trade fairs. Lots of these are online at the moment.

* Outside interests: for a translator interested in renewable energy, getting involved in a community energy scheme would be an excellent learning experience. I'm sure there are other examples for other fields.

* CPD log: if you keep track of what you've done it will give you something to demonstrate your seriousness. Approaching an agency by saying something like 'I'm building a specialism in X and this is what I'm doing to achieve that ...' establishes your credibility more than a list of specialisms with nothing to back them up.

That's just a few ideas. What it actually makes sense to do will differ from one field to another. The good news is, it's never been easier to learn, there are so many good resources out there.

And if translators are doing fine without doing any of this, then good luck to them. They can happily ignore all this. But I think it's actually very very tough for newcomers trying to establish themselves in 2021 and most will need something to make them stand out from the pack.

[Edited at 2021-01-27 13:56 GMT]


Dan Lucas
Peter Shortall
 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:33
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Fair enough, but it still comes down to probabilities Jan 27, 2021

Chris S wrote:
TLDR: There is probably room for everyone.

I would amend your statement to read "There is probably room for everyone if they don't mind living off a very low income". In addition to anecdotal evidence of economic hardship in this forum, what little research there is suggests that half of linguists earn less than US$20,000 annually. That's barely a living wage, particularly for a skilled professional who may have trained for years. But then in a household with two incomes, that may not be the problem I perceive it to be.

My experience is that genuine mastery of the foreign language, good writing skills in your own language and the ability to deliver on time are surprisingly rare in this business and will get you far.

This is more persuasive than your first point! My own experience is that much of life is just about turning up and doing the basics well - you don't have to be a superstar. I like to think my clients use me because of my twenty years in the trenches in international finance, but maybe I'm overthinking things. Maybe my expertise in finance is neither here nor there and they like me simply because I respond promptly, stick to deadlines and write decent English. Ego-deflating* for me if true, and who knows, it might be...

Incidentally, a translator who doesn't have a specialisation but who goes on to acquire one will be able to test both sides of the argument. Do they get more or better offers before or after acquiring work-related expertise? Fiona did, and so did Rachel of this parish with her engineering degree, and although she's not very active [EDIT in the forum] Georgie with her wine and whisky gig seems to have pulled off a similar feat. Small sample though.

Dan

*Are those who insist on the primacy of expertise merely using it unconsciously as a means of imposing a pecking order in which they can assert high social rank?

[Edited at 2021-01-27 14:31 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Dive in Jan 27, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:

And I'm still curious as to how people with language/translation degrees are supposed to acquire "expertise" in specialist fields like science, engineering, finance, etc.:)


Initially, the same way as people with degrees in those subjects got degrees in those subjects: by studying and grasping the rudiments.

Then you can edge your way into a specific area by starting on the non-technical periphery and moving ever deeper as you gain knowledge.

Is what I did.

Now Dan lived and breathed finance for 20 years so he obviously knows loadsa stuff I don't. But the question is whether that is stuff I actually need to know and can't find out fairly easily.

Other things being equal, he will be better than me. But then I've got 20 years on him as a translator which maybe gives me an edge in other areas. Who knows? But we both seem to do alright. Which is kinda my point.


 
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