Off topic: Two agencies for the same job
Thread poster: Saeed Najmi
Saeed Najmi
Saeed Najmi
Morocco
Local time: 21:44
English to Arabic
+ ...
Mar 2, 2021

A few days ago a translation agency got in touch with me about a potential job. After reaching a deal and sending them my CV upon their request, I was contacted by another company, a sister company of the first, about the same job.
It looks like agencies are competing to get that job, and that's why they asked for my CV and were quick to accept my offer. Now they are looking for translators with better offers. I have a feeling they are using me, so I emailed them twice and asked for clari
... See more
A few days ago a translation agency got in touch with me about a potential job. After reaching a deal and sending them my CV upon their request, I was contacted by another company, a sister company of the first, about the same job.
It looks like agencies are competing to get that job, and that's why they asked for my CV and were quick to accept my offer. Now they are looking for translators with better offers. I have a feeling they are using me, so I emailed them twice and asked for clarifications, but they didn't bother to answer. Is this all ok? Kindly advise. Thanks.
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:44
French to English
Clarification Mar 2, 2021

It does not seem suspicious to be contacted by two or more agencies if they are competing for the same contract with a potential client. Along the whole length of the chain, negotiations take place; business is business.

However, if the agencies having contacted you are both local offices of the same business, then there may be a mistake


Tina Vonhof (X)
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Kevin Fulton
LIZ LI
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Sounds familiar Mar 3, 2021

It's interesting that you mention this, because I have found myself in a similar situation twice in recent months, including once earlier this week, and I was thinking of starting a thread about it myself. I have a theory about what happened in my case, I don't know if it applies in your case too.

I'll give a fuller reply when I'm less busy tomorrow, but for now, may I ask you: (1) Do you know how the second agency found you - perhaps the first agency gave it your contact details? (
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It's interesting that you mention this, because I have found myself in a similar situation twice in recent months, including once earlier this week, and I was thinking of starting a thread about it myself. I have a theory about what happened in my case, I don't know if it applies in your case too.

I'll give a fuller reply when I'm less busy tomorrow, but for now, may I ask you: (1) Do you know how the second agency found you - perhaps the first agency gave it your contact details? (2) Are the agencies on the Blue Board?
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Fatine Echenique
 
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 00:44
Member
English to Turkish
Weird Mar 3, 2021

Saeed Najmi wrote:

I was contacted by another company, a sister company of the first, about the same job.


Why would a 'sister company' compete with its 'parent company'?


Barbara Carrara
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Alison Jenner
Fatine Echenique
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Reeling us in, and sisters and daughters Mar 3, 2021

Baran Keki wrote:

Why would a 'sister company' compete with its 'parent company'?


Maybe it's not competing. Maybe the "sister" has a bad Blue Board history (or a non-existent history) and is going through a "parent" with a good BB history which is more likely to be trusted by translators. In other words, the sister - possibly a scammer or bad payer - is using the parent's good name to reel translators in. The first (reputable) company passes the translator's contact details on to the scammer or bad payer, who then gets in touch with the translator and offers the same job, which the translator is already known to be interested in and available for. I think that's what happened in the two situations I mentioned above, and that's why I asked the OP above if the companies are on the Blue Board.

PS Shouldn't we be saying "daughter" rather than "sister", if we're calling the first company the "parent"?!

[Edited at 2021-03-03 12:17 GMT]


Barbara Carrara
Katarzyna Slowikova
 
Saeed Najmi
Saeed Najmi
Morocco
Local time: 21:44
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Scammers' Ways Mar 3, 2021

Thanks guys for your feedback. Interesting theories and assumptions that may all indicate that agencies, in addition to taking the lion's share in transactions do seek ways of inducing translators into further malicious schemes whatever it may be agreed to call them. Peter Shartall's theory, which caters for Baran's inquiry, sounds plausible. The ''parent'' company is indeed listed on BB with a good reputation while the ''sister/daughter'' company is not. My assumption is that the ''parent/broth... See more
Thanks guys for your feedback. Interesting theories and assumptions that may all indicate that agencies, in addition to taking the lion's share in transactions do seek ways of inducing translators into further malicious schemes whatever it may be agreed to call them. Peter Shartall's theory, which caters for Baran's inquiry, sounds plausible. The ''parent'' company is indeed listed on BB with a good reputation while the ''sister/daughter'' company is not. My assumption is that the ''parent/brother'' company, which is competing with other agencies, and not the ''sister'' company, approached me initially and asked for my CV upon easy negotiations in order to increase submit a good portfolio and increase its chances of getting the job. It then tasked the ''sister'' company of trying to get translators who might accept to do the job for less than what I offered. What raised my suspicions is that I informed the ''parent'' company of the email I received from the second company and asked for clarification twice, but they didn't bother to answer.
Of note, the target language is a regional variation of a language that has multiple variants if this detail is of any significance.
Thank you all.
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Fatine Echenique
 
3089491 (X)
3089491 (X)  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Local time: 22:44
A bizarre situation, indeed Mar 3, 2021

It is rather usual and legit for a business to try and get offers from several service providers. If the "match" seems unlikely, we'd rather not spend a lot of time on it.

Even if you are over-qualified for the job and they really want you to be their service provider, if they can't afford your rate, they will look somewhere else as well. Usually, they don't inform you of that, out of kindness. Because it's painful, right?

They accepted your offer, however they keep se
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It is rather usual and legit for a business to try and get offers from several service providers. If the "match" seems unlikely, we'd rather not spend a lot of time on it.

Even if you are over-qualified for the job and they really want you to be their service provider, if they can't afford your rate, they will look somewhere else as well. Usually, they don't inform you of that, out of kindness. Because it's painful, right?

They accepted your offer, however they keep searching. Not fair.
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Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
As promised... The story of the book that (perhaps) never was Mar 3, 2021

Saeed Najmi wrote:

What raised my suspicions is that I informed the ''parent'' company of the email I received from the second company and asked for clarification twice, but they didn't bother to answer.


Yes, their silence on that point says a lot!

As promised last night, I'll give a bit more detail about the situations I mentioned above, because they are similar to this one and perhaps it might help others to read this. I don't follow the Scams forum much, so I don't know if this pattern of behaviour has been discussed often in the past, but I do feel it's one that we should be on the lookout for. In fact, I have already discussed the first situation in the long-running thread entitled "Three translation agencies contacted us for MTPE...", you can read my posts there if you're interested.

Now for the more recent episode. Last week, I saw an advert in the Jobs section about a social media-themed book, with a tiny sample (a couple of sentences) to be translated. I did my usual early due diligence by Googling the outsourcer and looked it up on the Blue Board. It's a straight-fives agency. So far, so good. So I wrote to the outsourcer's email address, introduced myself, included the test piece, and asked whether I could see the book or at least be given some initial information about it, including the length.

A couple of days later, I got a reply from a lady at the agency. She seemed enthusiastic and asked me for my rate, but was surprisingly cagey about the book, saying only [my translation:] "unfortunately I can't send you the entire text to be translated, I can only tell you it's a book about marketing... but I estimate that a few weeks would be sufficient to complete the project". A bit skimpy on detail! I replied with my rate the next day... and I haven't heard from her since. That was nearly a week ago.

Then on Monday, out of the blue, I received an email - in English this time - from a woman from a different company. It was nothing if not concise. Here's the body of her email:

My name is [name removed] and I am the Director of Translator Relations at [company name and URL removed].
We are currently looking for a Romanian to English translator for a book in the field of sports, economics and psychology.
Would you be interested in hearing more details?


Several things struck me about this email. First, there was no mention of the company I contacted last week. If the two companies aren't connected, then it's a remarkable coincidence that someone wanting a translation of a Romanian book contacted me just days after I had expressed interest in translating a different Romanian book. In the 15 years of my career, this is only the second time I have received such an enquiry. And I am not an obvious candidate for a book about "sports, economics and psychology" (interesting blend of subjects!), so why contact me of all people? She didn't explain that.

Secondly, the great majority of prospective clients who contact me out of the blue tell me where they got my email address from. This lady didn't. She certainly didn't get it from ProZ, because I don't publish it here.

Thirdly - and most importantly - neither the email nor the linked website give an address or phone number, or even any vague indication of where this second outfit is! The website looks quite impressive, on the face of it; clearly a professional job, with a glossy design and a rotating gallery of photos of satisfied customers with euphoric expressions on their faces. But the photos look a tad staged, somehow; a little too professional. And the customer reviews are very vague, all variations on the theme of "the translation was wonderful!" with no specifics. That bothers me. The website as a whole has a lot of style, but it's wafer thin on the substance that counts. If I were a scammer and I wanted to wangle a free translation out of an unsuspecting freelancer, it would be the perfect launchpad. Complete untraceability. And this company is not on the Blue Board, so that's of no help.

I Googled the lady's name and turned up very little other than a LinkedIn profile, which I can't access as I'm not on that website, and a tiny handful of other sites mentioning the name of her company and giving two phone numbers: one (purportedly) a UK number, and the other an Israeli number, judging by the dialling code.

What am I to make of all this? Either the two companies are unconnected, in which case it's the coincidence of my career, or... they're not. The first company passed my email address, without my permission, to the second one. The "social media book" might not even exist; that would explain why the first lady was so evasive about it. The second book might well exist; why the change of subject, I don't know, but the "bait and switch" strategy is a common opening gambit of scammers, that I know. One reputable outsourcer has suddenly faded into the background, and an untraceable one touting a similar project - of a type I am known to be willing to take on - has suddenly come along in its stead.

I don't take kindly to having my email address passed on like that, and the first company is in an EU state and should be subject to the GDPR, so I would question whether it has acted within the law. Regardless, it's a sign of questionable character in my eyes. The company might have a run of 5s on the Blue Board, but "that don't impress me much", as the song goes. As for the second lady, I'm not minded to reply to her; I did toy with the idea of seeing how evasive she'd be if I pressed her for specifics, but on reflection, I think it would be an exercise in futility.

My conclusion: if two outsourcers contact you around the same time about the same job or very similar ones, and the first one appears to have a good BB reputation but the second one doesn't, beware! They might be in league.


Adieu
Fatine Echenique
 
Saeed Najmi
Saeed Najmi
Morocco
Local time: 21:44
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What to do about my CV. Mar 3, 2021

Thanks for the exhaustive account Peter; weird indeed! How the second woman got your details and the second company got mine seems a question only the first ''lady'' and first ''company'' can answer.
In my case, I didn't bother to reply to the ''sister'' company's email; instead I asked the first to account for that. They must have been stunned when to the extent that they didn't know what to say and preferred to hush about it altogether. The only thing I feel a bit bad about is that I se
... See more
Thanks for the exhaustive account Peter; weird indeed! How the second woman got your details and the second company got mine seems a question only the first ''lady'' and first ''company'' can answer.
In my case, I didn't bother to reply to the ''sister'' company's email; instead I asked the first to account for that. They must have been stunned when to the extent that they didn't know what to say and preferred to hush about it altogether. The only thing I feel a bit bad about is that I sent them my CV as they meant to use it to consolidate their position as serious competitors. But anyways, I guess there is nothing I can do about that now.
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Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:44
English to Czech
+ ...
... Mar 7, 2021

Saeed Najmi wrote:

They must have been stunned when to the extent that they didn't know what to say and preferred to hush about it altogether. The only thing I feel a bit bad about is that I sent them my CV as they meant to use it to consolidate their position as serious competitors.


Using CVs of highly qualified translators to get contracts and then finding entirely different people for the actual work who'll do it for a fraction of price is nothing new in our industry (EU tenders, anybody...?). It doesn't have to be two companies involved.

The other trick of a subsidiary with good BB rating providing a front for another one with bad rating is also allegedly a known practice. I found out about it when chasing a non-payer who has a couple of such "good sisters" here on BB, though in my case they were not involved. But the "bad sister" gets regularly banned from posting jobs on Proz (due to payment disputes) and it's very likely they use a similar scheme during these times to be able to get new translators (which they need all the time since obviously nobody's going to work for them past the 1st payment due date).

Your "two sisters" may have decided to blend the two tricks into one.

And no, I don't think they were bothered by you discovering this at all. They got what they needed from you, which was your resume. The fact the "bad sister" contacted you as well was probably a little mix up on their part that they don't have to worry about.

However, if the "good sister" is subject to GDPR, you can request they delete all your data, and if they don't you can report them to the authorities in your country that deal with the GDPR violations.

Correction: I see you're from Marocco... but perhaps you could report the company to the GDPR office in THEIR country...?

[Edited at 2021-03-07 17:47 GMT]


Baran Keki
Fatine Echenique
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
NOT weird Mar 7, 2021

Baran Keki wrote:

Saeed Najmi wrote:

I was contacted by another company, a sister company of the first, about the same job.


Why would a 'sister company' compete with its 'parent company'?


1 clean "ghost" company teases you on the idea, gets your interest at a higher rate....and promptly disappears on you.

A purportedly different entity then offers you the job, with noticeably worse terms and/or perhaps as a temporary entity with an entirely disposable reputation.

Maybe the 1st company keeps its reputation clean and the 2nd is chronically late on payments or retroactively haggles after completion or doesn't pay at all.

Or....maybe the 1st company's email was spoofed, hacked, sent from a squatted lookalike domain, or sent by malicious employee using their work email to start up their own side business. The 1st email solicits interest from a trustworthy-looking source, the 2nd uses the generated unfulfilled enthusiasm to lure you into something rather more suspect.


Baran Keki
 


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