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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

de non contre-indication à

English translation:

there are no (apparent) contraindications to running in competition

Added to glossary by Yvonne Gallagher
Dec 28, 2019 10:00
4 yrs ago
14 viewers *
French term

de non contre-indication à

French to English Medical Sports / Fitness / Recreation marathon
Hello,

"Les non-licenciés devront présenter un certificat médical de non contre-indication à la pratique de la course à pied en compétition lors du retrait des dossards."

This is also on the medical certificate.

My own attempt sounds unnatural, i'm also unsure of the wording that is used in this particular context.
I don't like this at all:"should present a medical certificate of no contraindication to taking part in competitive racing "

I would really appreciate your help!

Thank you so much.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 there are no contra-indications to running in competition
4 +4 that you are fit to compete
5 does not reveal any indication against the practise of running in competition
3 +2 Clearance
References
Contraindication
Change log

Dec 31, 2019 15:38: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry

Discussion

Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Dec 31, 2019:
@everyone who has helped me Thank you so much, I have used Yvonne's answer, even though I liked all your suggestions.
Happy new year, may 2020 being you health, happiness and interesting translations :)
Ph_B (X) Dec 31, 2019:
Wolf, "I disagree that a translation should automatically reproduce the source register." Do you really mean that?<p>"What the race organizers want is..." I've no idea what they want or why they want it (like, for instance, meeting the conditions that their insurers formally impose on them), but I do know what clients want: a translation that tells them what the source text says and how it says it. And in case of doubt, clients must be given enough information to be able to decide what the final version should look like.</p>Happy New Year to anyone who is about to start a new year and greetings to everyone else!<p>
Wolf Draeger Dec 30, 2019:
See how they run! OK, so maybe "verging on gibberish" is a tad strong, but I still think it's inapt jargon. See my ref entry.

As for (in)formality, I disagree that a translation should automatically reproduce the source register. As always, it depends on the context, situation and purpose of both source and target texts. The same principle applies to tense, for example. But that's not the point here. My beef with "contraindication" is simply that it's wrongly used.

What the race organizers want is a medical certificate stating that Joe Soap or Jane Balm is sufficiently fit and healthy to run (no preexisting conditions & whatnot) so that they are not liable in the event of an incident. The wording is up to the doctor as long as it's clear and accurate.
Tony M Dec 30, 2019:
@ Ph_B, Wolf You can certainly have 'contraindication' for anything, not just treatment or drugs! "Going out on a bender is contraindicated if you have liver failure"!
Ph_B (X) Dec 30, 2019:
Wolf, "As far as I know, you contraindicate medicine or treatment, not things like running..." I am not going to argue and you may well be right, but then, no one here wrote that either. As quoted: "...any obvious contraindication to Mr Bloggs swimming..."
Ph_B (X) Dec 30, 2019:
Wolf, on style and method :-) The organisers are deliberately using formal language instead of something more ordinary like: En vous inscrivant à cette course, vous confirmez que vous êtes physiquement capable d’y participer. It is worth wondering why they did not use that kind of language and research shows (see above) that this is the very language used by lawmakers, insurers and doctors in this situation. For that reason, I would not dismiss it as “inapt… verging on gibberish” or "twisted" or "mangled", but would rather try to understand and translate it accurately.<p>
Additionnally, this competition is taking place in a French-speaking country, where things may well be run (!) differently from South Africa, for instance. Translating the text as it is written while using the register that is proper in English in this particular context, will alert clients to these differences and to any consequences in the source country if the language used does not cover exactly what the source text says.<p>
From a translation point of view, the register of the source text must be kept. From a legal/insurance point of view, clients must be protected against unforeseen consequences. I would be careful here.<p>
Wolf Draeger Dec 29, 2019:
On style & method I wouldn't turn to the French Senate or for that matter any lawmakers or lawyers anywhere for sense and clarity. Just because they're happy to twist and mangle language doesn't mean we should be as well.

That goes for doctors, too. As far as I know, you contraindicate medicine or treatment, not things like running or swimming or walking...

And the duty of translators is not to 'stick to the ST' but to produce a TT that is readable and makes sense—faithful to meaning and intent, obviously, but not to wording.
B D Finch Dec 29, 2019:
@Yvonne Note that the GP you cite ("there would not appear to be any obvious contraindication") is being sensibly cautious in avoiding making a statement of something unprovable (e.g. asserting a negative) such as "there are no contra-indications".
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 29, 2019:
specific centres for these certs and that's why there are centres specialising in these certs who run a battery of tests on individuals before issuing anything, often charging up to £200. If you look on runners' forums you will see that many runners fake these certs, precisely because their GPs won't sign off on them
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 29, 2019:
UK GPs give their opinions... on being asked to sign these certs.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/gp-topics/legal/gps-should-...
"I very rarely actually say anyone is 'fit' for anything, instead stating (where appropriate) that on the basis of the medical records and without specific examination for the purpose, there would not appear to be any obvious contraindication to Mr Bloggs swimming the Atlantic, or whatever the event may be.
Have always presumed that would be medico-legally safer but there is the concern that an individual participant could still think that they were being certified as 'fit', as requested by the organisers, with the bereaved family taking legal action on the basis that the fitness certification was misleading.
Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Dec 29, 2019:
@Ph_B Thank you!
Ph_B (X) Dec 29, 2019:
"the ST term is inapt jargon verging on gibberish" non contre-indication could be replaced by absence de contre-indication, but apart from that, the French Senate uses the same text as the source text: Le principe même d'une visite médicale permettant d'attester de l'absence de contre-indication à la pratique du sport en loisir ou en compétition n'est pas remis en cause. ( https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2015/qSEQ15021050S.html ) and the translation should reflect the source text as accurately as possible.<p>Incidentally, this is also the text that liability insurers use with sports clubs, organisers of sporting events, etc. and I would be careful in that respect.<p>
Tony M Dec 28, 2019:
@ Phil I'm afraid everything works like this in France!
philgoddard Dec 28, 2019:
Too much hassle I wouldn't bother entering if I had to get a doctor's certificate!
ormiston Dec 28, 2019:
A phrase including... " no medical impediment to the practice of...."?
Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Dec 28, 2019:
@Tony yes, that's already much better, thank you!
Tony M Dec 28, 2019:
@ Asker It would already sound better if you used soemthing like '...certificate to the effect that there is no contra-indication...'

Proposed translations

+3
3 hrs
Selected

there are no contra-indications to running in competition

must present a medical certificate stating that there are no contra-indications to running in competition

This the wording in quite a few places in English
https://www.londondoctorsclinic.co.uk/services/sporting-medi...

"The certificate must state there are no contra-indications to running in competition"

https://www.schneiderelectricparismarathon.com/en/registrati...

“no contra-indication to running in competition.”

the medical certificate must state (that) there are no contra-indications to running in competition...

of course the informal way of saying this is just "present a medical certificate stating you are fit to compete".

(5CL really but not recommended on Kudoz)


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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs (2019-12-31 15:37:01 GMT) Post-grading
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Very glad to have helped. I truly believe that it's best practice to match the register, particularly where something may end up being disputed in court.

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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs (2019-12-31 15:38:29 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Otherwise I'd have used the informal rendering I'd offered at the end of my answer.

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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs (2019-12-31 15:41:59 GMT) Post-grading
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And Happy New Year to all!
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
6 hrs
Thank you!
agree Daryo : the whole of "a medical certificate stating that there are no contra-indications to running in competition" // that simply means the runner will most likely not drop dead in the middle of the race, nothing more - not any level of real "fitness".
10 hrs
Thanks:-) Yes, no exaggerated claims on fitness being made, simply that there appear to be no serious (health) reasons why the individual cannot participate in a race or other sporting activity
agree Ph_B (X) : that in this case, it is better to keep as close to the source text as possible (see discussion), as shown in the examples you have provided.
18 hrs
Thanks:-) Yes, agree with your Dbox entry
neutral philgoddard : Your references are translations, and your answer is way longer than BD's.//They are translations - the wording comes from the French event organizers.
18 hrs
A London clinic can come up with their own wording!! It's not a translation. And "longer" often necessary to rule out ambiguous wording for a document that may wind up in court (in insurance claim)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you so much Yvonne :)"
1 hr

does not reveal any indication against the practise of running in competition

Source : formulaire officiel de certificat médical pour participer aux courses de l'UTMB

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-12-28 11:55:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://utmbmontblanc.com/espace_coureur.php?req=getCertifCo...
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Awkwardly verbose and copied from an extremely poor translation that doesn't look like the work of a professional translator.//Or grammar and punctuation?
1 hr
Yup. But that has been the official translation for years. And this is the Olympic games of trail running. Translation is not always about esthetics. .
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not idiomatic English and "practiSe" is a verb
1 hr
Agreed. The typo was actually mine.
neutral Daryo : "official" or not, this translation is in serious need of some improvements
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
3 hrs

that you are fit to compete

I think that this would be worded positively in English, rather than negatively.

https://forums.runnersworld.co.uk › Events
Feb 20, 2009 - 12 posts - ‎6 authors
The Organisers have requestd a Medical Certificate - Is this ... just a letter from your GP stating that you are fit to compete in a running race.

https://www.runnersforum.co.uk › Forums › Regional Events › Overseas
Jul 27, 2015 - is in good health and fit to compete in a competitive orienteering race ... (ex D.M. 18 febbraio 1982) to obtain a medical certificate of fitness for

https://www.trawdenac.co.uk › reports
Mar 9, 2017 - ... still required a medical certificate confirming I was fit to compete. ... as a Trawden runner - then took a few photos before we got ready to go.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-12-28 13:04:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've realised that should be correcte to: that they are fit to compete for your context.
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : informal way of saying it, not same register as the ST//So now you're telling doctors what they "should say"? This is not just informal but ambiguous.
12 mins
It is used in official contexts, not just informally. As one cannot prove a negative, a doctor should only say "I have not found ...", not "there are no ..." However, this positive version is more natural and usual in English.
agree Wolf Draeger : Yes, you don't "contraindicate" running; the ST term is inapt jargon verging on gibberish.
2 hrs
Thanks Wolf. That's what it looked like to me too.
agree Verginia Ophof
2 hrs
Thanks Verginia
agree philgoddard
3 hrs
Thanks phil
neutral Daryo : there is a not so small grey area between "there are no reasons to prevent you from participating" (= you are likely to survive the race) and "being fit" as in "you can keep the tempo of the race, maybe even win" - you are shifting the meaning.
10 hrs
You misunderstand the meaning of the word "fit". In this context, it only means in adequate physical condition, nothing more than that.
agree erwan-l
21 hrs
Thanks erwan
Something went wrong...
+2
2 hrs

Clearance

A bit of sleuthing has produced this!

https://emedicine.medscape.com › 8...
Résultats Web
Sports Physicals: Overview, Timing, Frequency, and Types of Evaluations ...

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Note added at 4 heures (2019-12-28 14:39:42 GMT)
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MEDICAL CLEARANCE Certificate or letter

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

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Note added at 1 jour 15 minutes (2019-12-29 10:16:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Having medical clearance implies some sort of official /doctor's note, making the translation less clunky!
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
2 hrs
agree Cyril Tollari : Medical clearance
21 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 days 3 hrs
Reference:

Contraindication

Some dictionary defs of contraindicate:

ODE/NOAD Medicine (of a condition or circumstance) suggest or indicate that (a particular technique or drug) should not be used in the case in question

Collins medicine To advise against or indicate the possible danger of (a drug, treatment, etc)

Chambers 1. To point to (a particular treatment or procedure) as unsuitable or unwise (medicine) 2. To show or give as reason for not being, doing or having, etc 3. To forbid

AHD To indicate the inadvisability of (a medical treatment, for example)

Merriam-Webster to make (a treatment or procedure) inadvisable

Collins & Chambers do allow for a broader use of the term, but I think sensible usage would stick to "advising against a treatment, procedure or medicine that might otherwise be recommended", else it risks becoming a loose synonym for "bad for your health" or "not a good idea" which would rob it of its specific meaning in clinical terminology.

For what they're worth, the Wikipedia refs also stick to a clinical context.
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraindication

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indication_(medicine)

Note from asker:
Thank you Wolf :)
Something went wrong...
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