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Glossary entry

Turkish term or phrase:

bey

English translation:

Mr

Added to glossary by Can KARABULUT
Sep 12, 2013 10:22
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Turkish term

bey

Turkish to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
I know this is a very basic question, but this is something that has troubled me for years. Let us say that somebody's name is İbrahim Demir. In Turkish, he can be addressed informally as 'İbrahim', formally as 'İbrahim bey', or more formally and less commonly as 'sayın Demir'. So, how do we go about translating 'İbrahim bey' - it is more formal than just İbrahim, but in English we only use 'Mr' with a surname. If we happen to know the person's surname - and this is not always the case - perhaps translating 'İbrahim bey' as 'Mr Demir' would work, although this would most correctly be the translation for 'sayın Demir'. I have for some time just ignored the rule that in English 'Mr' is used with the surname, and translated this as 'Mr İbrahim' - and often we do not know the person's surname anyhow - but I do not feel comfortable with this. I wonder if there are any better solutions.

The same issue, of course, occurs with 'hanım' used after women's forenames.
Proposed translations (English)
4 Mr
5 Mr.
Change log

Sep 13, 2013 11:12: Can KARABULUT Created KOG entry

Discussion

Mehmet Hascan Sep 12, 2013:
Who was right? I would use Mr. Can Akbulut so as to avoid any misunderstanding.
Tim Drayton (asker) Sep 12, 2013:
Another option Sometimes we see titles such as 'Monsieur, Herr, Senor' retained in English texts. Perhaps in the same way we could retain 'Bey' or 'Hanım' as in the Turkish text, and perhaps make a note that this is an honorific title that follows the forename.
Güzide Arslaner Sep 12, 2013:
On a side note, do not forget to capitalize the title, e.g. Ayşe Hanım, Mehmet Bey.

Reference: http://www.tdk.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_content&id=183:bu...

ctrl+f: Kişi adlarından önce ve sonra gelen unvanlar
Nihan Pekmen Sep 12, 2013:
In formal documents you shall always use "Mr. Surname". If you do not have the last name, you should use the first name without using bey or hanım. Consider a report written in England/USA, people will refer by their first names or the last name without using Mr./Mrs. The same apply.
Tim Drayton (asker) Sep 12, 2013:
Another possibility Yesterday I was translating quite an informal message from a lawyer about a court case in which she referred to some of the people involved as 'Ahmet Bey', 'Mehmet Bey' etc. I decided, given the fairly informal tone of the text, just to translate these as 'Ahmet', 'Mehmet' etc. In fact, that is why this question remains on my mind. No solution seems fully satisfactory to me.
ATIL KAYHAN Sep 12, 2013:
I believe we are talking about deep cultural differences here. There are probably no equivalents to look for. I am thinking that I can also translate Can Bey as Can Akbulut, plain and simple. Most probably that would work as well. In my opinion, Mr. Can and Mr. Akbulut would both work, as would Mr. Can Akbulut. There is no single equivalents for these expressions. These are just two different cultures. That is all.
Tim Drayton (asker) Sep 12, 2013:
What if you only know some of the surnames? Suppose in a legal text the persons are referred to as 'X bey', and you know some of these persons' surnames from other other documents but not all of their surnames. Are you going to use 'Mr Surname' for some of these and 'Mr Forename' if you don't know their surname? This seems very inconsistent and so unacceptable in a legal translation.
Serdar Usta Sep 12, 2013:
If you know the surname, then Mr. Surname, otherwise Mr. Firstname is fine.
Nihan Pekmen Sep 12, 2013:
As "Can Bey" is used only in semi-formal speech, it should be translated as Mr. Akbulut.
Tim Drayton (asker) Sep 12, 2013:
Who was right? Incidentally, I was criticised by a translation agency about a year ago for using 'Mr' with forenames. The context was a set of personnel reports, where the person's forenames and surnames were stated at the beginning. Let us say that one of the people was called 'Can Akbulut'. Naturally enough the reviewer referred to 'Can bey' throughout the report, and I translated this as 'Mr Can'. However, the agency criticised me for not using 'Mr Akbulut'. Who was right?
Nihan Pekmen Sep 12, 2013:
Before the "surname law", men were addressed by their first names followed by "bey" or "efendi" to indicate gender and social status as well. Like the kings and princes of the feudal period, "bey" was the reign of "beylik"s in Anatolia. I guess, men are called "bey" as a reminder to emphasize their power in the family. Also "hanım" literally translated as "my khan" has the same meaning.

Proposed translations

20 mins
Selected

Mr

I fully agree with your explanation, however I am unable to offer another or better term other than "Mr", as well.
Something went wrong...
1 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks. You have basically confirmed what I already believed, so I am just giving one point here. I asked the question to see if there were any other innovative ways of handling this problem, but it seems not."
23 mins

Mr.

The Word "bey" is used when addressing to a person you know only by his first name (which is the mostly encoıuntered case as cited by you Tim) or you wish to keep distance with the addressee - completely different from its application in UK and USA and same applies for the ladies and even teenager girls regardles they are married or bachelor and the Word "Dear" is mostly used when addressing informally (curtesy rule) or stress on ranking in a society or for the sake of addressee's age (elderly)
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