Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
ciste
English translation:
situla or cista (depending on context and description)
Added to glossary by
cchat
Aug 28, 2015 18:56
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, Italian to English
ciste
French to English
Art/Literary
Archaeology
Etruscan bronze
The context is a description of an Etruscan wine service found among grave goods dating from ca. 400 BCE.
One of the pieces is a cylindrical bucket for diluting wine:
"la ciste (seau pour le mélange de l’eau et du vin) est typique du nord de l’Italie."
It corresponds to definition no 2 in J. Girard, Dictionnaire critique et raisonné des termes d'art et d'archéologie:
"sort de seau cylindrique en bronze dont l'origine remonte à l'age du fer... Il est muni d'une anse en seau, ou de deux anses latérales...
I haven't come up with an English equivalent. "Kiste" seems to refer to an ancient Greek box or chest; "cistus," a flower.
Can anyone help?
Thanks
Donald
One of the pieces is a cylindrical bucket for diluting wine:
"la ciste (seau pour le mélange de l’eau et du vin) est typique du nord de l’Italie."
It corresponds to definition no 2 in J. Girard, Dictionnaire critique et raisonné des termes d'art et d'archéologie:
"sort de seau cylindrique en bronze dont l'origine remonte à l'age du fer... Il est muni d'une anse en seau, ou de deux anses latérales...
I haven't come up with an English equivalent. "Kiste" seems to refer to an ancient Greek box or chest; "cistus," a flower.
Can anyone help?
Thanks
Donald
Change log
Aug 31, 2015 07:25: cchat Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
35 mins
Selected
situla
Situla, from the Latin for bucket or pail, is a term for a variety of elaborate bucket-shaped vessels from the Iron Age to the Middle Ages, usually with a handle at the top. All types may be highly decorated with reliefs in bands or friezes running round the vessel.
In the crater the wine is shown being mixed with water, contained in the situla (B).
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Note added at 21 hrs (2015-08-29 16:02:28 GMT)
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To Asker: It is quite tricky, as you say.
Here is another online reference, describing both situla (or sitella) and cista, which may help you decide.
It's from: William Smith, D.C.L., LL.D.: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. John Murray, London, 1875.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/...
In the crater the wine is shown being mixed with water, contained in the situla (B).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2015-08-29 16:02:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
To Asker: It is quite tricky, as you say.
Here is another online reference, describing both situla (or sitella) and cista, which may help you decide.
It's from: William Smith, D.C.L., LL.D.: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. John Murray, London, 1875.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/...
Note from asker:
| “Situla” does seem appropriate to the object’s use and general shape, but French has the word “situle”. Again referring to Jacques Girard, Dictionnaire critique et raisonné des termes d’art et d’archéolgie (Klincksieck 1997), at “situle’: “Récipient conique en bronze muni d’une anse. Comme la ciste fabriquée dès l’âge du fer en Italie du Nord...”. Admittedly this source is a general reference, but it seems to indicate that French distinguishes the two terms. And the “ciste” I am dealing with is attributed to Northern Italy and was found in Belgium. (And, yes, I should have provided more context about an item so specific.) |
| I have considered many online references, and it is very hard to be categorical. Thank you for your help. |
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I am not worthy to award points, only to offer thanks to all. Both cista and situla seem appropriate - and I have included them both, glossed, in my translation. But see http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/247040. This is a reputable institution, and the image is virtually identical to the object I am dealing with."
+1
27 mins
cista
Cista Mystica. A cylindrical vase
https://books.google.ie/books?id=ATqbCISVNiIC&pg=PA64
https://books.google.ie/books?id=ATqbCISVNiIC&pg=PA64
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: Cist appears to be OK too.
7 mins
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Thanks Phil.
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| neutral |
B D Finch
: They seem to have lids but no handles and don't look much like buckets.
2 hrs
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Thanks Barbara. Multiple uses I think.
|
13 hrs
Howard Sugar
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Italy
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, English to Italian, and 1 more.
kiste
From Girls and Women in Classical Greek Religion
by Matthew Dillon page 370
"Kiste-cylindrical chest, containing sacrificial items or sacred object; carried on head"
The original sense of the word meant basket. It was then used to carry objects for voltive offerings. In time it meant an urn in the shape of the basket (and the ancient Greeks also used the term to mean womb)
by Matthew Dillon page 370
"Kiste-cylindrical chest, containing sacrificial items or sacred object; carried on head"
The original sense of the word meant basket. It was then used to carry objects for voltive offerings. In time it meant an urn in the shape of the basket (and the ancient Greeks also used the term to mean womb)
Example sentence:
The couple are shown in paintings on either side of the niche with a curious large urn (kiste) between them which suggests them to be members of some sort of undetermined religious cult.
Clement of Alexandria has reported the contents of such a synthema as follows: "I fasted; I drank the kykeon; I took from the kiste [a cylindrical reliquary]; having done my task, I placed in the basket, and from the basket into the kiste" (Protreptikos,
Reference:
http://understandingrome.com/going-underground-the-columbarium-of-pomponio-hylas/
http://www.bsu.edu/classes/magrath/305s01/demeter/eleusis.html
Reference comments
20 mins
Discussion
Refs. <p></p> http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/krater<p></p...
https://books.google.fr/books?id=oVHDhnaon5AC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA...
https://books.google.fr/books?id=5mCcKu6HhMAC&pg=PA477&lpg=P...
"3.11.1 Basket Vase
This is presumably a kalathos,the name used for
a vessel shaped like an inverted bell or basket. There are other types of basket vase which are mentioned by the ancient authors, i.e. kibōtos (κιβωτός), kistē (κίστη) and phormos.
The term was certainly used in conjunction with wicker baskets i
n antiquity. Production of kalathoi is known from the Protogeometric period (or earlier) onwards.
68
Its presence at the Kabeirion is probably due to a dedication but whether the offering was the vessel itself or its contents is unclear.
We know that baskets played a role in ritual by carrying dedicatory goods to a sanctuary and that they could be made from materials other than wicker."
http://theses.gla.ac.uk/503/1/2008bediganphd.pdf