Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
Les Bonshommes, les Bougres
English translation:
Bluefriars/
Added to glossary by
Anna Maria Augustine (X)
Oct 1, 2004 22:52
19 yrs ago
French term
Les Bonshommes, les Bougres
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
none
Historical terms, probably pre-renaissance, possibly religious signification. Pas de tout pegoratif.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
38 mins
Elena Petelos
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Medical, Legal, Technical
Native in: Greek
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
Bluefriars/
I suggest you keep the French terms in brackets however....
From ancient times it was the location of an abbey
12th century - 13th century - 14th century
The order was known as the Bonhommes,
or 'bluefriars' on account of the colour of their robes. ...
http://www.fact-index.com/a/as/asheridge.html
I can't find much on "les Bourges", but possible reference to Benedictines of Bourges or Albigenses...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02720b.htm
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Note added at 40 mins (2004-10-01 23:33:13 GMT)
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revenge. The designation of les Bourges for the Albigenses registers the loathing of horror-struck Europe. The crusade proclaimed against them may in some cases have outstepped the limits of justice, but it was preferable to the irregular murders and lynchings in districts where the Albigensian fanaticism had wrought havoc in the home and destroyed family life together with marriage.
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/cite/staff/philosopher/albigens...
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Note added at 42 mins (2004-10-01 23:35:19 GMT)
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Albigensians (Bulgarians for the second term)
The name of Bulgarians (Bougres) was also applied to the Albigenses, and they maintained an association with the Bogomils of Thrace. Their doctrines have numerous resemblances to those of the Bogomils, and still more to those of the Paulicians, with whom they are sometimes connected. It is difficult to form any precise idea of the Albigensian doctrines, as all the existing knowledge of them is derived from their opponents, and the few texts from the Albigenses (the Rituel cathare de Lyon and the Nouveau Testament en provencal) contain very little information concerning their beliefs and moral practices. What is certain is that they formed an anti-sacerdotal party in opposition to the Roman church, and raised a continued protest against the corruption of the clergy. The Albigensian theologians, called Cathari or perfecti (in France bons hommes or bons chretiens) were few in number; the mass of believers (credentes) were not initiated into the doctrine at all - they were freed from all moral prohibition and all religious obligation, on condition that they promised by an act called convenenza to become \"hereticized\" by receiving the consolamentum, the baptism of the Spirit, before their death.
http://brandt.kurowski.net/projects/lsa/wiki/view.cgi?doc=52...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2004-10-01 23:39:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(and sorry for typos...:-)
From ancient times it was the location of an abbey
12th century - 13th century - 14th century
The order was known as the Bonhommes,
or 'bluefriars' on account of the colour of their robes. ...
http://www.fact-index.com/a/as/asheridge.html
I can't find much on "les Bourges", but possible reference to Benedictines of Bourges or Albigenses...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02720b.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2004-10-01 23:33:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
revenge. The designation of les Bourges for the Albigenses registers the loathing of horror-struck Europe. The crusade proclaimed against them may in some cases have outstepped the limits of justice, but it was preferable to the irregular murders and lynchings in districts where the Albigensian fanaticism had wrought havoc in the home and destroyed family life together with marriage.
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/cite/staff/philosopher/albigens...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2004-10-01 23:35:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Albigensians (Bulgarians for the second term)
The name of Bulgarians (Bougres) was also applied to the Albigenses, and they maintained an association with the Bogomils of Thrace. Their doctrines have numerous resemblances to those of the Bogomils, and still more to those of the Paulicians, with whom they are sometimes connected. It is difficult to form any precise idea of the Albigensian doctrines, as all the existing knowledge of them is derived from their opponents, and the few texts from the Albigenses (the Rituel cathare de Lyon and the Nouveau Testament en provencal) contain very little information concerning their beliefs and moral practices. What is certain is that they formed an anti-sacerdotal party in opposition to the Roman church, and raised a continued protest against the corruption of the clergy. The Albigensian theologians, called Cathari or perfecti (in France bons hommes or bons chretiens) were few in number; the mass of believers (credentes) were not initiated into the doctrine at all - they were freed from all moral prohibition and all religious obligation, on condition that they promised by an act called convenenza to become \"hereticized\" by receiving the consolamentum, the baptism of the Spirit, before their death.
http://brandt.kurowski.net/projects/lsa/wiki/view.cgi?doc=52...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2004-10-01 23:39:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(and sorry for typos...:-)
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "OK. They were Cathars but probably persecuted rather than the persecutors. Thanks."
+2
32 mins
Tegan Raleigh
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Literature & Scholarship
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: French to English, English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
gentlemen/ individuals
in my larousse, it says that "bougre" is a vielli. form of "individu". i don't see any reference to religious significance for either bonhomme or bougre.
+3
1 hr
Good Men, the Bulgars or Bulgarians
It was the Inquisition that called Cathar priests "parfaits" and "parfaites".
Between themselves and to the people of Languedoc they were simply Christians, Bons Hommes and Bonnes Femmes – Good Men and Good Women.
Sometimes they received their name from their manners, as "Catharists" (Puritans), and, from the foreign country from whence it was presumed they had been expelled, they were called "Bulgarians," or Bougres.
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/DuggerDodd/Dugger10.h...
Between themselves and to the people of Languedoc they were simply Christians, Bons Hommes and Bonnes Femmes – Good Men and Good Women.
Sometimes they received their name from their manners, as "Catharists" (Puritans), and, from the foreign country from whence it was presumed they had been expelled, they were called "Bulgarians," or Bougres.
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/DuggerDodd/Dugger10.h...
Reference:
7 hrs
Pierre POUSSIN
France
France
Native in French
France
Fast and accurate.
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Latin to French, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Les Cathares. Les Bulgares
"Les Cathares" also called "The Pure Ones" were a religious sect in theSouth of France. They had no priests but "preachers" called "Les Bonshommes" who could give the "consolamentum" or last sacrement.
Les Bougres" is an ancient term for the Bulgars since they were said to be adepts of "Bougrerie" (Sodomy). A memory of invasions!
Les Bougres" is an ancient term for the Bulgars since they were said to be adepts of "Bougrerie" (Sodomy). A memory of invasions!
+1
10 hrs
Jean-Charles Pirlet
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in French
&
English
United Kingdom
Qualified lawyer-25 years in banking.
Native in: French , English
Works in: English to French, French to English
Lads
Both words have absolutely nothing to do with the cathar heresy.I am afraid that it does not quite mean "individual or gentlemen" either.
Bonhomme meant originally "good man", but has evolved to refer to a simple man devoid of malice.It is also an affectionate term for a boy.It also refers to rough depictions of men as in snowman-bonhomme de neige/bonhomme Michelin-Bibendum.I think here bonhomme refers to men of modest social status,means and intellect.
Bougre is still very much used in novels.It refers to a rough kind of men,also of low social and financial standing.Pauvre bougre would be exactly translated by "poor bugger", but I am not sure you want to use this sort of language...
I can think of several possible translations,maybe you could give me the context ?
Bonhomme meant originally "good man", but has evolved to refer to a simple man devoid of malice.It is also an affectionate term for a boy.It also refers to rough depictions of men as in snowman-bonhomme de neige/bonhomme Michelin-Bibendum.I think here bonhomme refers to men of modest social status,means and intellect.
Bougre is still very much used in novels.It refers to a rough kind of men,also of low social and financial standing.Pauvre bougre would be exactly translated by "poor bugger", but I am not sure you want to use this sort of language...
I can think of several possible translations,maybe you could give me the context ?
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
: I do think that the Cathar theory is feasible but as far too often nowadays, no context has been revealed by Asker so we are left to guess. I personally am starting to ignore questions that offer 000 context.
1 day 38 mins
|
13 hrs
Info, no grading
Tragédie Cathare
... du Christ ou bons chrétiens et les croyants du Languedoc les appelaient "*bonshommes ou bonnes* ... de glouton, piffre) en Bulgarie des *Bougres* tout comme ...
perso.wanadoo.fr/jcplanes/cathares/2-definition.htm - 18k
Histoire de Carcassonne
... Arrivent alors, des régions balkaniques, des hommes qui se font appeler "bougres" ou "bonshommes" et qui propagent le catharisme. ...
pedagogie.ac-toulouse.fr/ histgeo/monog/carcas/histoire.htm - 23k
Albigensian Beliefs
In the west, the word Cathar means the Albigensians. The name Albigenses was given to the Catharist heretics of Languedoc from 1181 when it was used by the chronicler Geoffrey de Vigeois. The name of
**Bulgarians (Bougres)** was often applied to the Albigenses, who communicated with the Bogomil sectaries of Thrace. They resemble, in their dualism, the Bogomils, and still more the Paulicians. A few Albigensian works are still extant:
In Catharism, Christ was a life giving spirit and the **boni homines (bonhommes) or good men***, the Cathar Parfaits, were his ambassadors. They are instituted with the spiritual baptism by fire instituted by Christ. It was utterly different from the baptism by water which belonged only to the fleeting material world. Cathars were those who had been “consoled” by this gift of the Paraclete.
... du Christ ou bons chrétiens et les croyants du Languedoc les appelaient "*bonshommes ou bonnes* ... de glouton, piffre) en Bulgarie des *Bougres* tout comme ...
perso.wanadoo.fr/jcplanes/cathares/2-definition.htm - 18k
Histoire de Carcassonne
... Arrivent alors, des régions balkaniques, des hommes qui se font appeler "bougres" ou "bonshommes" et qui propagent le catharisme. ...
pedagogie.ac-toulouse.fr/ histgeo/monog/carcas/histoire.htm - 23k
Albigensian Beliefs
In the west, the word Cathar means the Albigensians. The name Albigenses was given to the Catharist heretics of Languedoc from 1181 when it was used by the chronicler Geoffrey de Vigeois. The name of
**Bulgarians (Bougres)** was often applied to the Albigenses, who communicated with the Bogomil sectaries of Thrace. They resemble, in their dualism, the Bogomils, and still more the Paulicians. A few Albigensian works are still extant:
In Catharism, Christ was a life giving spirit and the **boni homines (bonhommes) or good men***, the Cathar Parfaits, were his ambassadors. They are instituted with the spiritual baptism by fire instituted by Christ. It was utterly different from the baptism by water which belonged only to the fleeting material world. Cathars were those who had been “consoled” by this gift of the Paraclete.
Discussion
parfaits: the perfected ones