This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Der lyrische Moderne
Vulgärdichtung

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

konnotativer Bedeutungshof

English translation:

connotative field of (symbolic) meaning

Added to glossary by Stephen Old
Aug 30, 2017 17:31
6 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

konnotativer Bedeutungshof

German to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Japanese haiku
This is from a description of the content of a Japanese haiku - and relates to a poem in which a crow alights on the branch of a tree in the Autumn twilight. - Ein solcher konnotati­ver Bedeutungshof, der sich bereits in der ältesten, auch dem Volk vertrauten Dichtung bildete,
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 connotative field of (symbolic) meanings
4 (rich) repository of connotations
3 metaphoric ambience
3 host of connotative meanings
3 semantic domain
3 connotative representation

Discussion

Helen Shiner Sep 1, 2017:
Deluge Getting deluged with these posts now. Please can we keep them to the necessary minimum? I know I can block them, but since I've posted an answer, I feel I should at least be aware of the conversation.
Stephen Old (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof In case you are wondering Helen (as I do in these cases), I removed the extra "s" before posting this term in the glossary. We have already had one case of pleonasm here; we don't want any more superfluous letters of the alphabet!
Stephen Old (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof Thanks @herbalchemist - and for your understanding @Karolin - that is why I rejected options such as linguistic domain, which is more scientific. I think it wil be a very long time before I come across the term"konnotativer bedeutungshof" again; but I am glad that I have been introduced to it. :-)
Karolin Schmidt Sep 1, 2017:
sure : ))
Stephen Old (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof Thanks Karolin and everyone else who has contributed to this discussion. The article which I am translating is extremely "intellectual" so I am going to choose Helen's suggestion as this bet reflects the tone of the original German text.
Karolin Schmidt Sep 1, 2017:
@Bjoern "The ridiculous thing is that after trying out different combinations in my head, there’s no other way the author could have added “konnotativ” in German"

Maybe because it is already included in "Bedeutungshof"? It would result in something like connotative connotation. associative association. Getting dizzy.
Stephen Old (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof Thanks for this suggestion, Helen and Ann for supporting her. I appreciate that connotative is a fairly obscure word but it is in keeping with the style of this academic article which I am translating so I think I should keep it in the translation.
Herbmione Granger Sep 1, 2017:
I'm not sure how relevant this is to this text, but Bedeutungsfeld = semantic field.
https://dict.leo.org/german-english/semantic
https://www.team-hf.de/downloads/2014-kuenzer.l.hofingerg.--...
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4899-3490-1_...
Herbmione Granger Sep 1, 2017:
@Bjoern I wasn't certain until I dug up a similar analysis that 'konnotativ' has this particular meaning (and there is still doubt). Modern psychology and philosophy do not make such a strong distinction between denotation and connotation, and often connotative means something more like contextual. I don't think this Psychology paper was using 'konnotativen Bedeutungshof' the wrong way: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-322-94209-8_...
Björn Vrooman Sep 1, 2017:
Three ENS examples:
(rich) field of connotative meaning
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~caforum/volume3/vol3_article3....

layers of connotative meaning
https://teenschooling.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/why-students-...

ranges of connotative meaning
http://crab.rutgers.edu/~rushing/Some_types_of_literary_mean...

I think the much bigger issue is that the author is using the adjective for the first part of the compound noun. In contrast to “ruhige Schifffahrt” = ruhige Fahrt auf dem Schiff, “konnotativer Bedeutungshof” = Hof (Feld) an konnotativen Bedeutungen. The ridiculous thing is that after trying out different combinations in my head, there’s no other way the author could have added “konnotativ” in German; it just doesn’t work. I wish he or she had rephrased, but oh well.

To show Stephen what the term means in context:
“when I realized that ‘shared water’ was both a literal reference to the water situation in ‘dry heat’ Arizona and also a very clever, gracious way of referring to our shared enterprise and its theme”
https://haikuproject.wordpress.com/links/shared-water-a-reng...
Björn Vrooman Sep 1, 2017:
@Stephen Sorry for posting this a bit late, I guess:
"die assoziative, emotionale, stilistische, wertende [Neben]bedeutung eines sprachlichen Zeichens betreffend"
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/konnotativ

Same in English:
"Whereas denote refers to the literal, primary meaning of something, connote refers to other characteristics suggested or implied by that thing. Thus, one might say that a word like motherdenotes ‘a woman who is a parent’ but connotes qualities such as protection and affection"
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/connote

There's no need to introduce anything "symbolic" or "representative" here.

May not entirely agree with Anne's remarks, as "konnotative Bedeutung" is a bit like doubling down (nebenbedeutungsmäßige Bedeutung, hmm), but it's established: https://www.universalclass.com/articles/writing/aspects-of-d...

The plural "connotations" might work but I don't see why you should change anything here.

Helen gets my vote because I agree with the singular for "meaning" and with "field" (or range/layer). I wouldn't rip apart "connotative meaning," though. It's even in the dictionary (see your link).
Stephen Old (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof Thanks for all the replies. I had not previously fully realised this but I think the key to understanding this is in this link and the page linked to it. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/connotati...
Anne Schulz Sep 1, 2017:
@herbalchemist While I know the term "Bedeutungshof" in the sense of "any meaning assigned to or associated with a given word", your quote seems to support Karolin's understanding that "-hof" is the more diffuse, connotative set of meanings of a term. I have not been able to find a clear definition of the word "Bedeutungshof", hence, it is possibly used in both senses, depending on the speaker.
Anne Schulz Sep 1, 2017:
@Karolin Die Klammer hinter der Internetadresse wurde automatisch mit als Link formatiert, wenn du sie in der Adresszeile löschst, müsste die Seite aufrufbar sein.
Herbmione Granger Sep 1, 2017:
konnotativer Bedeutungshof Probably comes from here: 'Das kigo fungiert gewissermaßen als Kode, stelltein Denotat, etwas objektiv Wahrnehmbares dar, das von einem konnotativen Bedeutungshof, etwas subjektiv Empfundenen, umgeben ist... Das kigo hat also Ieitmotivische Funktion, es ist Symbolträger, der dem Leser spezifische, in natürlicher Bildlichkeit objektivierte Stimmungswerte des Autors übermittelt, die in jedem Fall adäquat
empfangen werden, denn erstens sind die Konnotationswerte über Jahrhunderte hinweg konstant, und zweitens nimmt der Japaner assoziationsorientiert wahr.' http://www.sabine-sommerkamp.de/images/pdf/haiku_im_jap_werb...
Karolin Schmidt Sep 1, 2017:
I see. You are right. Anne, the link is broken.
Helen Shiner Aug 31, 2017:
With Anne I agree with Anne. It is not one single connotation, but an associated field of associations or connotations.
Anne Schulz Aug 31, 2017:
I don't think it is a pleonasm. There are different ways of assigning meaning (see e.g. the connotation-denotation differentiation in the reference I quote in my Answer), and connotation is just one of them --> Konnotation/connotation is a subset of Bedeutung/meaning.
Karolin Schmidt Aug 31, 2017:
The term is a pleonasm. Konnotat = Bedeutungshof, so "konnotativ" is not necessary. "Connotation" alone would actually do.
Karolin Schmidt Aug 31, 2017:
For Bedeutungshof I found "host of meanings" (which only means that there are many meanings transported/connotated by one word/symbol). So could it be "host of connotative meanings"?
Ramey Rieger (X) Aug 30, 2017:
metaphoric ambience comes to mind.https://books.google.de/books?id=EJmxk0Ofv7EC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA...
Helen Shiner Aug 30, 2017:
@Stephen It can also mean symbolic meaning, I believe, from what I have just read, though I cannot properly confirm it. Not a term in frequent use. See section 4. here: http://www.fachdidaktik-einecke.de/9a_Meth-Sprachreflexion/m...
Helen Shiner Aug 30, 2017:
Agree with Ramey It probably means connotative field of meaning, but the context would mean we could check.
Stephen Old (asker) Aug 30, 2017:
konnotativer bedeutungshof Hello Ramey,sorry for the delay. Here is the sentence. Ein solcher konnotati­ver Bedeutungshof, der sich bereits in der ältesten, auch dem Volk vertrauten Dichtung bildete, überträgt der Krähe die Funktion eines Kodes. Can I send you the poem tomorrow as I have a lot of queries to deal with now?
Ramey Rieger (X) Aug 30, 2017:
The ENTIRE sentence please. I wouldn't mind reading the haiku, either.

Proposed translations

+1
14 hrs
Selected

connotative field of (symbolic) meanings

See my discussion box entry.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2017-08-31 07:36:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

An example of 'connotative field of meaning' in use: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fOcz_dbWEYUC&pg=PA11&lpg...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2017-08-31 07:37:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I meant to post 'connotative field of (symbolic) meaning' not 'meanings'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2017-08-31 07:47:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See also p.209 start of section 3: https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/jais/volume/docs/vol13/v13_10_ma...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2017-08-31 11:24:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is the language of discourse theory, so best to keep to the kind of formulation dictated by this genre of analysis.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2017-09-01 13:44:44 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

With pleasure, Stephen.
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : As said in the d-box, I agree with two of your three points, so I'll be the "tie-breaker" for once, I suppose. I really would push connotative further to the back; I believe the German can't be written in any other way.
1 day 5 hrs
Thanks, Björn. That's the way the term is used in humanities writing influenced by discourse theory, so I agree it is the way to go.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks again, Helen. I am glad I waited a long time before awarding the points for this question. As I wrote before, your suggestion is the best translation of the register of the German text. "
1 hr

metaphoric ambience

May serve you well.
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

(rich) repository of connotations

My take
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

host of connotative meanings

Like with "host of symbolic meanings"

The meanings are connotative, not the host, at least this is how I understand it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 Stunden (2017-08-31 07:49:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry here is the link again. Hope it works this time...

https://www.google.de/search?q="host of symbolic meanings"&i...
Reference:

https://www.google.de/search?q=%22host+of+symbolic+meanings%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=7L6nWZPjDPKCX-7QkaAM

Something went wrong...
1 day 13 hrs

semantic domain

Ein solcher konnotati­ver Bedeutungshof, der sich bereits in der ältesten, auch dem Volk vertrauten Dichtung bildete, überträgt der Krähe die Funktion eines Kodes.
A semantic domain, built from connotations..., confers to the crow the function of a code.

Don't think that Barthes' theory of semantics is being referenced with 'konnotivativer Bedeutungshof' and 'code'. His 'code' doesn't make sense here. https://www.cla.purdue.edu/english/theory/narratology/module...

From my original answer:

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2017-08-31 12:33:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'm probably not rendering this properly. My first impression of 'Bedeutungshof' was something analogous to 'Bauernhof' and related Höfe. Something created/built/owned from a greater expanse. www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Hof

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2017-08-31 16:39:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Can I change my answer to 'contextual domain'?
'Signs are used to construct meaning in a contextual domain. This domain is essential for the creation of meaning. Meaning always carries connotations.'
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230583238_3

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2017-08-31 17:14:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.tilmanrothermel.de/hp2/lektion/lektion03/frame_se...
'Definieren heißt "begrenzen", es wird also um den Begriff sozusagen eine Demarkationslinie gelegt, die diesen Begriff von anderen Begriffen unterscheidet. Dieser "Bedeutungshof" ist keine Konstante, durch geschichtliche Prozesse, durch soziale Voraussetzungen, durch unterschiedliche Kontexte kann der Hof stark verändert werden.'
'Konnotationen sind individueller oder tiefensymbolischer Art: Sie bezeichnen nicht nur den Sachverhalt sondern auch noch Qualitäten, die diesem Sachverhalt zugeordnet werden. Die Konnotation kommt immer zu der Denotation hinzu. Sie kann sich auch hinter der Denotation "verstecken".'


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2017-08-31 20:08:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'Bedeutungshof' could be 'semantic domain'.
'A domain is essentially a specific place or territory.[1] A semantic domain is a specific place that shares a set of meanings, or a language that holds its meaning, within the given context of the place.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_domain
Something went wrong...
12 hrs

connotative representation

I agree with Helen in that "Bedeutungshof" is the field or array of meanings a term may have. It is a technical rather than a poetic term. Konnotativer Bedeutungshof is the subset of meanings associated by virtue of connotations (as opposed to denotations, see for example https://www.csun.edu/~bashforth/098_PDF/06Sep15Connotation_D...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day14 hrs (2017-09-01 07:36:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Karolin kindly pointed out that the above link does not work: please remove closing bracket from the web address when trying to follow the link - it should work then.

Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search