Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

patrimoine 'noir'

English translation:

dark heritage

Added to glossary by Michele Fauble
Oct 13, 2005 08:48
18 yrs ago
French term

patrimoine 'noir'

French to English Social Sciences Anthropology
This is a doc talking about the dark side of heritage: cock-fighting.

I need to find a way of getting round the use of 'black' heritage, which can be confused with the heritage of black populations.

"Le cas d’un patrimoine « noir » : les combats de coqs dans le Nord de la France"
"Une partie de ces pratiques se rattache à des comportements jugés « inquiétants », irrationnels, voire même « dangereux » : c’est le cas des combats de coqs, mais on pourrait citer le phénomène des voyants et des envoûteurs, la sorcellerie au village, certaines formes de chasse, tout ce qui pourrait faire partie d’un patrimoine « noir »"
"Mais doit-on diviser le patrimoine en un versant blanc et un versant noir : le premier, digne d’intérêt (beffrois, machines agricoles, jeux traditionnels) et dont la protection est encouragée ; le second, néfaste ; qu’il convient de faire disparaître ?"

I'd be grateful for any ideas you have on how to avoid the white/black image...

Discussion

Richard Benham Oct 13, 2005:
You could talk about heritage being divided into a "lighter/brighter side" and a "darker side" (or even "face" instead of "side"). Talking about dark or light heritage "tout court" seems a bit unidiomatic.
Michele Fauble Oct 13, 2005:
Maybe "dark' vs 'bright'.
Anna Kiff (asker) Oct 13, 2005:
Hi Richard, I don't know, I wondered if it sounded a bit supernatural or something! Would you say white heritage and dark heritage in that case, or light heritage???
Richard Benham Oct 13, 2005:
Is there some reason to avoid your own excellent suggestion of "dark side of [my/our/their...] heritage"?

Proposed translations

+6
23 mins
Selected

dark heritage

'Dark heritage' is often used of those practices that are held in low regard.

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Note added at 25 mins (2005-10-13 09:14:04 GMT)
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... about cockfighting, New Mexico’s dark "heritage" that refuses to die. ...
www.desertexposure.com/200503/200503_cockfighting.html

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Note added at 48 mins (2005-10-13 09:37:52 GMT)
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The European Union's bright heritage of culture and traditions ...
myeurope.eun.org/eun.org2/eun/en/myEurope_News/content.cfm?ov=31036&lang=en

Peer comment(s):

agree Vicky Papaprodromou : An even clearer example for 'dark heritage/history' at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/01/25/france.holocaust/
12 mins
thanks
agree Bourth (X) : Abs. no prob. with any supernatural connotations since the text goes on to include those. I'd throw in religion while I'm at it ... Keep away from the Dark Side. May the Force be with you.
28 mins
thanks
agree Jocelyne S
30 mins
thanks
agree Anna Quail : dark heritage, absolutely. I find it more difficult to translate "le versant blanc"... the lighter side, as opposed to the darker side?
33 mins
thanks
agree Elizabeth Lyons
1 hr
thanks
agree French Foodie
1 hr
thanks
neutral Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : Michele..I'm afraid this is making my ears ring..darker side...a style thing, IMO
9 hrs
thanks ('dark' + 'heritage' is a frequent collocation)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for all your help"
9 mins

infamous/discreditable

unedifying, shocking ....

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Note added at 11 mins (2005-10-13 09:00:44 GMT)
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disreputable/reputable

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Note added at 52 mins (2005-10-13 09:41:45 GMT)
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Maybe you could also use 'good' and 'bad', keeping the inverted commas ...
Something went wrong...
1 hr

sinister traditions

Sinistra, originally meaning left.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

shameful side of our heritage

another possibility.
Something went wrong...
+2
5 hrs

dark side or darker side of our heritage

not dark; that is not good English; dark side


IMO, the author is a bit bongo...
Peer comment(s):

agree Nick Lingris
2 hrs
other we get dark matter::dark heritage...ha ha
agree sporran
6 hrs
This is indeed a matter of dark and light...ha ha..
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

murky heritage

heritage or tradition(s)
Something went wrong...
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