Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

tenir qqch rigueur à qqn

English translation:

hold sth against s/o

Added to glossary by Tony M
Sep 15, 2011 08:03
12 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

tenir rigueur à

French to English Other History Diplomatic
The full paragraph:

Le nouveau Ministre des Affaires Etrangères M. Pak Tjyei-syoun est actuellement Ministre de Corée à [Pékin ?], il a été choisi par l’Empereur avec l’approbation de M. [Pavlov ?], bien que ce fut lui qui fit arracher les poteaux télégraphiques plantés par une Compagnie russe dans le mois de [ ???] pour relier la ligne coréenne à Vladivosok. Les Russes n’avaient peut-être pas agi en cette circonstance avec toute la prudence incluse [bref?] M. [Pavlov ?] n’en a pas tenu rigueur à M. [Pak ?].

The original is in handwriting, to explain the unsure words.

My problem is with the end of the paragarph. I understand that the Russians wanted Mr. Pak and that they acted with prudence not to upset the Koreans any more. So why should they be still angry at Mr. Pak. I think I missed something here. I also have a problem with the "bref" and "inclus", but that is less crucial, I think.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 hold it against
Change log

Sep 15, 2011 08:14: Tony M changed "Term asked" from "tenu rigeur" to "tenir rigueur à"

Sep 20, 2011 07:17: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/89747">Stephen Rifkind's</a> old entry - "tenir rigueur à"" to ""hold it against""

Discussion

polyglot45 Sep 15, 2011:
requise would be good. I was simply looking for something that could have been misread as "incluse"
Stephen Rifkind (asker) Sep 15, 2011:
Thanks polygot and Tony (and others) for pointing out where I misread the sentence. I really appreciate your help!
David Goward Sep 15, 2011:
or 'requise' I also think 'incluse' is wrong, but suggest that 'requise' might be the word you're looking for.
Richard Nice Sep 15, 2011:
incluse? --> la prudence requise ?
polyglot45 Sep 15, 2011:
OK then It is fairly clear that although Pak had had the telegraph poles pulled up, since the Russians had probably not been circumspect enough in the first place when erecting them, Pavlov didn't hold this against Pak. I think 'incluse' is wrong - perhaps 'admise'?
Stephen Rifkind (asker) Sep 15, 2011:
1904 - before Russo-Japanese war
polyglot45 Sep 15, 2011:
what era does this date from? tenir rigueur = to hold against someone

Proposed translations

+4
13 mins
Selected

hold it against

Is the basic meaning — note the preceding 'en'

Perhaps here "didn't actually blame him for this", but we'd need to know a bit more about the overall situation to see exactly which way to turn it. As well, of course, as maintaining a style appropriate for the period!
Peer comment(s):

agree David Goward : I think polyglot45 has summed it up nicely (see discussion panel)
11 mins
Thanks, David! Indeed, yes, a pity s/he didn't submit it as an answer.
agree Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz
13 mins
Thanks, Alistair!
agree Simo Blom
5 hrs
Thanks, Simo!
agree rossignol
10 hrs
Merci, Rossignol !
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci"
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