| Страници в темата: < [1 2 3 4] > | Unprofessional conduct in the discussion of questions. Автор на темата: John Dale D.D.
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| thank you efreitag | Jun 17, 2008 |
you observations are somewhat myopic, my suggestions are rarely ignored and many have been accepted as the required translation. Acknowleging the short time I have contributed.
Once again you prove my point - "it rather *might* be a hint to the overall quality of your contributions" demonstrates your personal point of view and not the facts.
thank you again for taking the time to write to me.
john
| | | | | How to KudoZ and enjoy it, too | Jun 17, 2008 |
John Dale D.D. wrote:
my suggestions are rarely ignored
Hi John,
Most of the KudoZ contributors have developed their own strategy for answering KudoZ questions. I believe I pointed out to you in one of my comments that it is customary to provide some sort of a reference for the term you are suggesting, be it a dictionary or a glossary, or to include a relevant source you found by googling the term. To help the asker, colleagues often also try to explain the concept behind a term. “Guessing” is not really an accepted method of research, neither here at Proz.com nor anywhere else where people work as professional translators. Imagine for a moment that you are the asker – what would you appreciate more – a quickly posted answer with no references to back it up, or an answer that points you to various sources where you can verify that this is indeed the term you have been looking for?
As for peer comments, they are a great tool for quality control. Once you’ve watched the KudoZ circuit for a while, you will realize whose agrees you can rely on. And colleagues will of course, also comment on answers that are poorly documented.
But, enough with the preaching already - here are some practical tips:
Read some of the very useful “How To”s available in the Proz.com Article base, i.e.
“How to find the translation of a term using Google”
http://shortify.com/7482
“Getting more out of Google”
http://shortify.com/7483
Here’s my personal google-strategy:
1.Find a definition of the source term (google: “ST XX +glossary” or “ST XX+definition”) in the source language
2. Think!/ Think some more!/Google the ‘preliminary’ terms with words from the context provided by the asker. Check dictionaries to come up with an “approximate” translation; try synonyms
3. Google for confirmation in the target language (“target term” + relevant context )
4. Verify that your proposed translation is a match by finding a definition of the target term (google: “TTYY+ glossary” or “TTYY+definition”)
5. Go to “submit” and wait for comments.
Good luck, John.
Johanna
[Edited at 2008-06-17 22:58]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X) 
Испания
Local time: 15:30
Испански на Английски
+ ...
| More peasant | Jun 18, 2008 |
John Dale D.D. wrote:
Didn't think it was sinister at all, just didn't want to miss a pub  By the way The Red Lion is a bit passe what about the "Passed out Pedant and Inebriated Peasant" for a name??
thanks again
john
The Paralytic Plastered Pedant? The Poleaxed Punchdrunk Peasant?
Or, why be so nasty and negative about all this - simply The Pleasant Peasant or The Pleasant Pedant?
There is the other "Fox and Hounds" pub format too, so you could even have The Peasant and Pedant, The Peasant and Pheasant, The Pedant and Pheasant and many many others, but ... God, is that the time?
Bye,
Mervyn
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
John Dale D.D. wrote:
Didn't think it was sinister at all, just didn't want to miss a pub By the way The Red Lion is a bit passe what about the "Passed out Pedant and Inebriated Peasant" for a name??
thanks again
john
The Paralytic Plastered Pedant? The Poleaxed Punchdrunk Peasant?
Or, why be so nasty and negative about all this - simply The Pleasant Peasant or The Pleasant Pedant?
There is the other "Fox and Hounds" pub format too, so you could even have The Peasant and Pedant, The Peasant and Pheasant, The Pedant and Pheasant and many many others, but ... God, is that the time?
Bye,
Mervyn
Maybe it's time to suggest to 'The Little Translator' it's about time to hold a powwow at The Pleasant Peasant (suggested theme: "KudoZ - There's More to Life") so all the offenders can get inebriated, knock each other's heads together, and then kiss and make up.
Looking forward to the next instalment
Debs
[Edited at 2008-06-18 08:24]
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| The best suggestion - to all sides!!! | Jun 18, 2008 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Maybe it's time to suggest to 'The Little Translator' it's about time to hold a powwow at The Pleasant Peasant (suggested theme: "KudoZ - There's More to Life") so all the offenders can get inebriated, knock each other's heads together, and then kiss and make up.
Well said, Debs!!!
Did you hear this, Little Translators???
[Edited at 2008-06-18 07:58]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Нидерландия
Local time: 15:30
Член (2006)
Английски на Африкаанс
+ ...
| Well, let's talk about practical matters | Jun 18, 2008 |
John Dale D.D. wrote:
b) can one "block" aggresive and uninformed comments to one's suggestions?
Hey, this is actually a good idea!
Perhaps there should be a tickboxes like "My response is aggressive" and "My response is uninformed" so that people can indicate what kind of answer they're giving.
I can think of no other way that the ProZ.com system can determine if an answer is aggressive or uninformed, save that the responder indicates it as such. What do you think?
c) (and this is the big one); how can you (without infringing the rules set down) give such pedantic fools the comeuppance they so richly deserve?
Very easy... send them a private e-mail.
| | | | | Pedantry - Yes! | Jun 18, 2008 |
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
From my point of view, part of translation is pedantry. Language is what we do, and we have to do it well if we want to survive in a competitive market.
Yes, I entirely agree. We would not question a mechanic who insists in tightening some nut at 20 Nm and not 18 or 22 Nm... and we should not challenge the need to be as picky and accurate as possible in everything we do. Our life might not depend on it, but some other person's life might...
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Samuel Murray wrote:
John Dale D.D. wrote:
b) can one "block" aggresive and uninformed comments to one's suggestions?
Hey, this is actually a good idea!
Perhaps there should be a tickboxes like "My response is aggressive" and "My response is uninformed" so that people can indicate what kind of answer they're giving.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Испания
Local time: 15:30
Испански на Английски
+ ...
Samuel certainly has the right idea with the warning.
Or,
Box 1. I am a peasant, though pleasant.
Box 2. I am a pedant, though pleasant.
Box 3. I am a pedant and a peasant, though pleasant.
Box 4. I am a peasant, and unpleasant.
Box 5. I am a pedant, and unpleasant.
Box 6. I am a pedant and a peasant, and unpleasant [definitely one to avoid reading!].
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Samuel certainly has the right idea with the warning.
Or,
Box 1. I am a peasant, though pleasant.
Box 2. I am a pedant, though pleasant.
Box 3. I am a pedant and a peasant, though pleasant.
Box 4. I am a peasant, and unpleasant.
Box 5. I am a pedant, and unpleasant.
Box 6. I am a pedant and a peasant, and unpleasant [definitely one to avoid reading!].
Doubled up in laughter here - you should come with a health warning
| | | | Erik Freitag
Германия
Local time: 15:30
Член (2006)
Холандски на Немски
+ ...
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Box 6. I am a pedant and a peasant, and unpleasant [definitely one to avoid reading!].
We could even coin a neologism here and call this one a "pleadant".
| | | | | Searching strategy | Jun 18, 2008 |
Johanna Timm, PhD wrote:
Here’s my personal google-strategy:
1.Find a definition of the source term (google: “ST XX +glossary” or “ST XX+definition”) in the source language
2. Think!/ Think some more!/Google the ‘preliminary’ terms with words from the context provided by the asker. Check dictionaries to come up with an “approximate” translation; try synonyms
3. Google for confirmation in the target language (“target term” + relevant context )
4. Verify that your proposed translation is a match by finding a definition of the target term (google: “TTYY+ glossary” or “TTYY+definition”)
5. Go to “submit” and wait for comments.
If everyone did that, there would be no kudoz system to argue about
Well, if would be much reduced, at least.
I'm off down the Pheasant Plucker for a pint of mead, and a round of tongue-twisting games.....
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| Thank you Johanna | Jun 18, 2008 |
I firstly must apologise for my previous "over-reaction" to your advisements. As an explanation, not an excuse, I was overwhelmed by the seemingly personal references made, such as "flights of fancy" and "you know nothing about the German military system"; both of which were not actually the case.
Can I also point out, in my defence, there are options for "low or guess" in the answer field. This being so, I felt it was acceptable to offer a suggestion so based (and flagged as such)... See more I firstly must apologise for my previous "over-reaction" to your advisements. As an explanation, not an excuse, I was overwhelmed by the seemingly personal references made, such as "flights of fancy" and "you know nothing about the German military system"; both of which were not actually the case.
Can I also point out, in my defence, there are options for "low or guess" in the answer field. This being so, I felt it was acceptable to offer a suggestion so based (and flagged as such).
I find most questions asked are not so easy to find by "googling" let alone solutions for them.;-)
My system is
1. to roughly translate the text
2. Find the source (problematic) word in 2-3 dictionaries.
3. Find the translated definition and alternative words
4. Go back into the rough translation and try to fit the "problematic" concept (through experience and knowledge) to an acceptable word or phrase.
5. then google the phrase to see if there are any similarities
Thank you once again for taking the time to give me notes and ideas, which I will keep in mind for future endeavours.
mfg
John ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you efreitag | Jun 18, 2008 |
I am loathed to disabuse you of the notion your “new word “is neologistic. It is a word which has been demonstrably in use since the 1400’s. A legal term, similar to plaintiff.
"in 1920 the procedure was by count countant and plea pleadant i.e. the action was decided on the pleadings.....without duel, jury or the like."
Cohen, Herman. A History of the English Bar and Attornatus to 1450. London: Sweet & Maxwell, Limited, 1929.(page 178 - first paragraph)
-... See more I am loathed to disabuse you of the notion your “new word “is neologistic. It is a word which has been demonstrably in use since the 1400’s. A legal term, similar to plaintiff.
"in 1920 the procedure was by count countant and plea pleadant i.e. the action was decided on the pleadings.....without duel, jury or the like."
Cohen, Herman. A History of the English Bar and Attornatus to 1450. London: Sweet & Maxwell, Limited, 1929.(page 178 - first paragraph)
------------------------------------------------------------
"Each pleading includes a medical affidavit stating that the pleadant meets standards of medical protocol for amendment of gender marker in accordance with Texas code."
http://www.ftminfo.net/littleton.html (about halfway down the page)
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"... tenements, rents and such like, there a man shall say in his count countant and plea pleadant, that such a one was seised in his demesne as of fee. ..."
The First Part of the Institutes of the Laws of England By Edward Coke, Thomas
Littleton, Francis
Hargrave, Charles
Butler, Matthew Hale
, Heneage Finch
Nottingham
Published 1853
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"And of such things whereof a man may have a Manuell occupation, possession or receipt, as of lands, Tenements, Rents, and such like, there a man shall say in his Count Countant and Plea Pleadant,"
http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php?title=912&chapter=60839&layout=html&Itemid=27
(Section 10
Fee Simple)
So, as you can see, you have not abused me (albeit thinly veiled), quite the contrary, you have suggested (albeit unknowingly) that my posting was a “plaintiff cry” for discussion; which it was, poor choice of wording, I agree.
Unless of course your word should have been ”peadant” and was simply a typo.
Thank you once again
john ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you Samuel | Jun 18, 2008 |
I would be loathed to send an e-mail to anyone (private person) offering unsolicited advice and suggestions, (I have received 3-4 from here already, none useful, all abusive and all ignored).
I agree with you other suggestion, however there is already the facility to profess an answer as a guess (however for the most, itis ignored by readers).
"My response is aggressive" I totally agree with, this would i... See more I would be loathed to send an e-mail to anyone (private person) offering unsolicited advice and suggestions, (I have received 3-4 from here already, none useful, all abusive and all ignored).
I agree with you other suggestion, however there is already the facility to profess an answer as a guess (however for the most, itis ignored by readers).
"My response is aggressive" I totally agree with, this would in some way, allow us to determine if the languge used is "intentionally abusive" or simply poor choice of wording.
john ▲ Collapse
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