Moderators of Kudoz-for language pairs or field? Автор на темата: Ruxi
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Ruxi
Немски на Romanian
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I have a question regarding the moderators for KudoZ Questions.
It is supposes to ask their support in some difficult situation.
There are a few rules for this moderators, but how concretely can they help, especially when they are not specialist in the specific field?
There was such a case on a question where two answerers have given the same answer after all, a little bit otherwise explained. One of them has received 3 agrees, the other one only one.I don't know if the agreers... See more I have a question regarding the moderators for KudoZ Questions.
It is supposes to ask their support in some difficult situation.
There are a few rules for this moderators, but how concretely can they help, especially when they are not specialist in the specific field?
There was such a case on a question where two answerers have given the same answer after all, a little bit otherwise explained. One of them has received 3 agrees, the other one only one.I don't know if the agreers have looked in the profile of the answerer.One of them was a specialist in the field (and received the 3 degrees).
In the degree of the other answerer it was explicitely asked that the asker should give the points to this answerer (so rule broken).
Finally the asker has chosen this last answer.
It was asked for the support of the moderator.But she could not do anything.
She is specialised in law and the field for the question was chemistry.
The problem is how could she analise the answer and make justice in this case?
What was the idea of the site staff when considering moderators for the KudoZ questions.
It is iportant to know the language pair. What about the field? How can you judge when you do not know the field? And above all when it is a "Pro" question in that specific field?
And how can a moderator help? Can he/she delete points, or correct the asker?
Another problem is the impartiality of the moderator. What if she/he knows the asker very well and he/she might be subjective and notjudge corectly? How can one find his justice further, if a moderator failed to do it?
Finally I noticed that there are languages which do not have moderator at all. What is happening in that case? And who can become moderator? What criteria does she/he have to meet?
Please,could one of the site stuff member answer to these important matters?
Thank you,
Ruxi
P.S Maybe it should be reconsidered and put moderators for KudoZ only for fields, eventually one for more languages if that person knows more.
Here it is the specific case:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/878424?float=1
[Edited at 2004-12-14 13:50] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Moderators are not encyclopaedia | Dec 14, 2004 |
Hi Ruxi
As a KudoZ mod, I can answer to some of your questions.
KudoZ mods know and translate in the pair they represent, but are not supposed to always know which one is the best answer. We are not supposed to be specialist in all the fields.
Mods are not here "to make justice", their task is to enforce the rules.
Those who can help the asker to chose the best answer are the agrees of other translators, who might know much more than the moderator.... See more Hi Ruxi
As a KudoZ mod, I can answer to some of your questions.
KudoZ mods know and translate in the pair they represent, but are not supposed to always know which one is the best answer. We are not supposed to be specialist in all the fields.
Mods are not here "to make justice", their task is to enforce the rules.
Those who can help the asker to chose the best answer are the agrees of other translators, who might know much more than the moderator.
As the rules state, moderators are not supposed to correct the wrong choice of an asker, the only thing they can do is to correct the glossaries.
But, as well as members, moderators can agree or disagree with an answer when they know it.
Mod's impartiality: as I said, as mods don't intervene in chosing answers, it's not relevant, but it could happen with agrees/disagrees. I'm sure that if this happened, members would notice and report it to Staff.
For languages without moderator, as we say in forums every time that a problem arises, members can contact any moderator.
I'll leave the question about how to become a Moderator to Staff, but usually there are spontaneous applications sent to Staff.
I think I answered to most of your questions.
Claudia ▲ Collapse
| | | | two2tango 
Аржентина
Local time: 17:35
Член
Английски на Испански
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| On KudoZ and moderators | Dec 14, 2004 |
Ruxi wrote:
I have a question regarding the moderators for KudoZ Questions.
It is supposes to ask their support in some difficult situation.
There are a few rules for this moderators, but how concretely can they help, especially when they are not specialist in the specific field?
There was such a case on a question where two answerers have given the same answer after all, a little bit otherwise explained. One of them has received 3 agrees, the other one only one.I don't know if the agreers have looked in the profile of the answerer.One of them was a specialist in the field (and received the 3 degrees).
In the degree of the other answerer it was explicitely asked that the asker should give the points to this answerer (so rule broken).
Finally the asker has chosen this last answer.
It was asked for the support of the moderator.But she could not do anything.
She is specialised in law and the field for the question was chemistry.
The problem is how could she analise the answer and make justice in this case?
Hi Ruxi, thanks for your question, for it may help clarify a few important issues.
The asker is the one who decides which answer should be selected and how many point it should receive.
Rule 2.1 - Askers are required to provide feedback to answerers by selecting the answer they find most helpful.
Asking the moderator to change the asker's choice is against rule 3.4.
Rule 3.4 - Commenting to an asker regarding his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden.
Neither other askers, nor peer-graders, nor moderators have the right to make that decision. So in the case you cite the moderator's inaction was not related to lack of specific knowledge but to observance of the rules.
What was the idea of the site staff when considering moderators for the KudoZ questions.
It is iportant to know the language pair. What about the field? How can you judge when you do not know the field? And above all when it is a "Pro" question in that specific field?
And how can a moderator help? Can he/she delete points, or correct the asker?
Moderators are nor judges. Their responsibility is to enforce the rules, not to make sure that the "proper" answer is selected, so the field is not really that important.
Another problem is the impartiality of the moderator. What if she/he knows the asker very well and he/she might be subjective and notjudge corectly? How can one find his justice further, if a moderator failed to do it?
It is not really so serious since moderators are not judges. If you observe a situation that involves a violation of KudoZ rules http://www.proz.com/kudozrules you should notify a moderator (Rule 3.8) selected as per point 20 of the FAQ.
20. What should I do if the KudoZ rules are being broken?
You may either bring the KudoZ rules to the attention of whoever is breaking them ( http://www.proz.com/kudozrules ), or refer the matter to the moderator for the language pair in question. A list of moderators is available here.
When contacting a moderator to report violations of KudoZ rules, please be sure to include all relevant information, including links to particular questions, etc.
Finally I noticed that there are languages which do not have moderator at all. What is happening in that case?
Good question. You may find an answer in http://www.proz.com/?sp=mod/list
Note: When contacting a moderator regarding a specific issue, observe the following:
Contact preferably the moderator for the language pair in question
If there is no moderator for the specific pair, choose a linguistically similar pair (ex. for Vietnamese-French, choose somebody with French)
If the above is not possible, choose ANY member of the Moderator team
And who can become moderator? What criteria does she/he have to meet?
You may find general information about moderators in http://www.proz.com/?sp=info/team&ssp=team&sssp=moderators
Regards from cloudy and hot Buenos Aires,
Enrique Cavalitto
[Edited at 2004-12-14 12:46]
| | | | Ruxi
Немски на Romanian
+ ...
АВТОР НА ТЕМАТА | Thank you but... | Dec 14, 2004 |
Thank you for the answers, but it still is a problem.
First of all rules have been broken in that case and the moderator did not want to interfere.
Actually the role of a moderator in KudoZ is not so clear.
Everything there is related to question and answer,to evaluation, translation in a specific field.
When and for what reasons can a moderator interfere there if not to make sure people have handled correct?
If nothing else is important, why bother to put moderator... See more Thank you for the answers, but it still is a problem.
First of all rules have been broken in that case and the moderator did not want to interfere.
Actually the role of a moderator in KudoZ is not so clear.
Everything there is related to question and answer,to evaluation, translation in a specific field.
When and for what reasons can a moderator interfere there if not to make sure people have handled correct?
If nothing else is important, why bother to put moderators, or why do they have to be there for a specific language?
I believe their role is there for:
- making sure some (unclear) rules of behavior are not broken,
- interfering in cases of injustice
Who on this site can than help us become our justice if we feel somebody is handling unfair even in language matters?
There are aspects which are not written in those rules, but are natural.
These cases are very often.
If there are two or more answers to a question,the asker has to choose between them.But normaly he has to consider:
- agrees/disagrees - which (should)offer a warranty for the correct answer
- the profile of the answerer (if he is has the specific languages and expertise for that question)
- if an answer provides information to help him in the translation
- to put enough information from the original text so that an answerer should be able to find the correct translation
There is case when the robot authomatically an answer with the most agrees, it was considered to be a normal comparison. Why is then the same rule not applicable to the askers too?
The above rules are seldom considered.The stress is put more on other aspects in the rules for KudoZ.
And why should moderators no interfere in the final chosen of an answer? After all it is here a translation site,and questions are being asked and answered in order to make a good translation.
I still believe moderators in KudoZ questions should be professionals and a real help.Being impartial, he/she should moderate, that means always controle the balance in a situation and interfere.
Here they have to keep the balance bewteen answers on a subject.
It is the fundamental role they have to have.
In the forums there is another situation and there si more a matter of behavior and not of language.This is why the language (i.e origin) of a moderator is not so important.
KudoZ is the professional part of this forum and the rules are not suitable for this matter if we let people chose wrong answers and on the other side professional being hurt.
Ruxi ▲ Collapse
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Cristiana Coblis
Румъния
Local time: 23:35
Член (2004)
Английски на Romanian
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| position of the moderator | Dec 14, 2004 |
Dear Ruxi,
You have already brought this and it has been discussed in the Romanian forum. You have there the answer from three Romanian moderators (the same opinion - all impartial IMHO) and also the answer from the asker. As I suggested in the Romanian forum, you should have contacted first the pair moderator and then brought the subject to the forum. It is the normal course of action.
There have been situations in which a moderator had to step in and put a situation ... See more Dear Ruxi,
You have already brought this and it has been discussed in the Romanian forum. You have there the answer from three Romanian moderators (the same opinion - all impartial IMHO) and also the answer from the asker. As I suggested in the Romanian forum, you should have contacted first the pair moderator and then brought the subject to the forum. It is the normal course of action.
There have been situations in which a moderator had to step in and put a situation straight. In this case both responses were identical, the points were awarded for the explanation of the process per se, not for the translation of the word which was already known to the asker.
I am sure and it is normal that you feel a little frustrated because the two answers were identical and in my opinion this should not be encouraged (entering identical answers even if with different explanations). This is a source of constant discontent and frustration. Also, I belive the asker should have provided more information as to the fact that she needed specific process explanations and not translation of a simple word.
Also, please bear in mind that Kudoz is about opinions and only the asker has the entire context. Also, Kudoz is about someone getting the points and the rest of the answers "losing" them, about agrees and disagrees and this can sometimes be frustrating.
The important thing is to communicate and take part in this exchange.
[Edited at 2004-12-14 14:21] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nesrin
Обединеното кралство
Local time: 21:35
Английски на Арабски
+ ...
Hello Ruxi,
I will try to provide some answers to your second set of questions:
Who on this site can than help us become our justice if we feel somebody is handling unfair even in language matters?
There are aspects which are not written in those rules, but are natural.
I think everyone who is a regular contributor on Kudoz knows how frustrating it is when another answer is selected when you are absolutely sure that yours is the best. It's usually not so serious (unless you're obsessed with collecting points!), but moderators do interfere on some more serious occasions.
I remember once asking a moderator to interfere when a completely wrong answer (with 2 disagrees), was selected over mine (with over 10 agrees), simply because the asker was unable to read our Arabic scripts! On top of that, the asker entered the wrong term in the glossary. The moderator interfered to correct the glossary. I didn't get the points though, but that wasn't the main issue.
If there are two or more answers to a question,the asker has to choose between them.But normaly he has to consider:
- agrees/disagrees - which (should)offer a warranty for the correct answer
Agrees and disagrees do not always provide guarantees. Sometimes the asker knows best which answer fits his/her context, even if that answer has no agrees.
- the profile of the answerer (if he is has the specific languages and expertise for that question)
Someone who has no great expertise in physics e.g. may, nevertheless, provide a very knowledgeable answer from very solid references. Or he/she may not have indicated that expertise on his/her profile.
- if an answer provides information to help him in the translation
Precisely - this is something that only the asker can decide.
Regards,
Nesrin
| | | | two2tango
Аржентина
Local time: 17:35
Член
Английски на Испански
+ ...
| Rules and suggestions | Dec 14, 2004 |
The asker is the one who brings the need and has all the context, and (s)he may choose the answer of his/her preference.
There may be guidelines suggesting the best way to select an answer, but there are no rules dictating the mechanism of such selection.
Moderators should intervene in case of violation of the rules of e... See more The asker is the one who brings the need and has all the context, and (s)he may choose the answer of his/her preference.
There may be guidelines suggesting the best way to select an answer, but there are no rules dictating the mechanism of such selection.
Moderators should intervene in case of violation of the rules of etiquette to be observed in KudoZ, presented in http://www.proz.com/kudozrules. They have no say in which answer was chosen.
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Storm in a teacup | Dec 14, 2004 |
As far as I'm aware, the Asker chooses the answer and that's that. As it should be, and if you don't like it, hard luck.
I recently answered a question where the other answerers had a string of agrees as long as your arm. My answer was completely different and collected only neutrals.
The asker awarded me the points, because in his opinion I was correct. He had submitted the answers to his client who then gave him a clear cut answer.
So in this case the answer with the m... See more As far as I'm aware, the Asker chooses the answer and that's that. As it should be, and if you don't like it, hard luck.
I recently answered a question where the other answerers had a string of agrees as long as your arm. My answer was completely different and collected only neutrals.
The asker awarded me the points, because in his opinion I was correct. He had submitted the answers to his client who then gave him a clear cut answer.
So in this case the answer with the most agrees didn't cut it.
For goodness sake, IT'S ONLY A GAME! ▲ Collapse
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Gareth McMillan wrote:
For goodness sake, IT'S ONLY A GAME!
Hear, hear!
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